Trisha Allard 12 Apr 2006

I usually stay out of the debates, and flame wars. That is not why I come here.

I guess if you want to really stir stuff up AW will take on the Ban the trouble makers defense. Does that mean that most of the active members who voice an opinion or stand up for thier friends or fellow artists will get banned? How do you label a trouble maker anyhow?

Personally I think I agree with pretty much the common theme. If you don't like it don't read it and definitely don't respond to it. If you are being harrassed block them.

I have learned in my years in forums and chat places, it only takes one person to ruin a good time.

Set up some rules, post them and if the rules are broken out ya go, but give a warning first. Tempers flare and fingers on the keyboard fly fast. ( I should know I've been banned from a few forums, thats why I stay out of the heated stuff.)

As for putting in moderators? AW can't even moderate the images being displayed let alone the forum so I just really don't think that's even a possiblity.

Pretty much it stands, IMHO Leave it that way it is, I for one don't mind. Yes it gets old, but not as old as the whining gets.

ellen blockley 12 Apr 2006

I'm here for the ART, and I am turned off by the immature and foolish remarks of a few of the people on this site, which is why I seldom comment on the discussions. I'm sure these people can find another site to share these types of discussions where they will be better supported. There is a huge difference between an intellingent controversial discussion and some of the irrelevant, negative and dark comments that are posted hee. My vote: Noumber 2.

Katrina Papoutcharov 12 Apr 2006

Freedom of speech yes; freedom to cross lines that we all know are wrong,no. Like all rights in the US some are abused in a bad way including this one. Either get an unbiased moderater to warn and/or ban or there is no way I can relate, view the cruelty I've seen posted, or enjoy it in there anymore. Have you read it AW? I am an artist, not a word war blue ribbon wearer. #2 or at least a moderator to delete bad post, ban, warn, etc.

Bob MacPherson 12 Apr 2006

In spite of my number two position I can see in postings such as Seans, a sincerety in wanting to "get rid of the crap". Personally,the only winning that really will count at the end of this day, is if the hearts of the members are set in a new direction, aimed at these boards being a pleasant place to come to (for everyone). Because "one" has been the supposed method for some time (without much success), I must stick with "two"

If my only objective were to get along with every individual here, regardless of what he says and does, that would be no problem. Just be a good old boy and be nice, no matter. But it is not just about me. It is about many who get hurt so badly, and feel so intimidated, they can't even find courage to come to the boards. It is also about the many who let this drive them away: good people like Johnnice Johnston and DJ Dunton.

If sticking with "one" as we have in the past means this as a price tag; that tag is too high.

Jessica Morgan 12 Apr 2006

Bob, I agree with you. Very well said.

Cristina Marsi 12 Apr 2006

Sorry everybody, but I'm getting the feeling that a lot of people here -me included, but i posted early this morning and i was still sleepy, so i apologize- is forgetting what the subject of the thread actually is. And honestly, AW, i think your first post is a bit ambiguous.

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Quoting it: We feel that we have two options:

1) Continue to run things as they have been and allow these type of posts to continue, AS LONG AS THE RULES ARE NOT BROKEN.

2) Start banning members from the message boards, if we determine that they fit into the TROUBLE MAKER PROFILE.

---------------------------------

Now, quoting rules: We hope to not have too many rules, but there needs to be a few mentioned that are common sense:

No profanity or offensive messages.

No nudity or offensive images.

Only post images that are created by you or royalty free.

Constructive criticism is acceptable on others work when asked for, but don't just slam it.

No spam messages. Only post topics that are related to the category you are posting in.

Do not post the same message in multiple categories.

High debate topics such as religion, politics, gays, abortion, etc. are not welcome on our boards.

No posting links to websites that may be considered competition or similar to ArtWanted.com.

Negative comments towards specific artists will not be tolerated.

Negative comments towards ArtWanted.com will be removed - Suggestions are welcome, complaints are not.

Personal issues are to be dealt with directly with the member or ArtWanted.com via e-mail. The message board is not the place for personal issues that do not effect the rest of the artists on our site.

We reserve the right to edit/delete any message/thread if it gets out of hand or breaks these rules.

Have fun and come back often. Breaking these rules may cause a ban to the message boards or your account deleted off ArtWanted.com

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So, pray, how can someone fit what you define as a trouble maker profile without breaking rules? I'm really puzzled.

Steph Salt 12 Apr 2006

I don't like some of the things said so I avoid them, is this so hard to do?

Is AW a mother to a load of defensless chicks who need AWs skirts to hide behind everytime someone says boo?

I have seen members getting upset over an imagined insult, and instead of the other person explaining themselves daggers are drawn. And then everyone wonders what starts wars and battles....

I had someone react badly to something I said, twice! Each time I took a deep breath and explained things better. With one it worked, with the other it didn't.

I don't weep and wail about it, nor do I run comlaining to AW to defend me, I just avoided that person and things settled down.

Those who start screaming murder are attention seekers, who run for cover when they get more attention than they bargained for in my book, and they should also get a warning about their childish behavour.

They are all adults, for goodness sake, and should stop acting out the second world war in the playground iif they don't want brused egos.........

Go play with a ball in another playground, and leave the other children to play their games of spite with their shadows.

Sorry that is strong stuff, but it's the truth.....

In other words leave it as it is, BUT do give out warning when someone starts following someone from thread to thread, that is overstepping the mark...

Wendy Bandurski-Miller 12 Apr 2006

just a couple of guideline eeeeeekkk Christina......

wow I never realised there was sooooooo many RULES.....

In my classroom to avoid having a great HUGE list of rules......I had one.....

................BE GENTLE...............

worked EXCEPTIONALLY well for me for over 12 years.......

hmmm??

Judy Olson 12 Apr 2006

Yes, that's what I meant Cristina, I like troublemakers who abide by the rules. I think certain people are abrasive by nature and that is okay by me. I don't like rule breakers, and as I have said before, this is AW's site, play by their rules. AW already has the right to "ban" members who don't abide by the rules. Banning "troublemakers" is disturbing to me. What is the troublemaker profile? Again, "1)Continue to run things as they have been and allow these type of posts to continue, AS LONG AS THE RULES ARE NOT BROKEN."

Way to say it Steph!!

Barbara Beck-Azar 12 Apr 2006

1) Continue to run things as they have been and allow these type of posts to continue, as long as the rules are not broken.

PLUS a three strikes you are out... just like the ZINGS that AOL / YAHOO messenger has on their chats...

I think it's up to each person to maintain order and respect first to themselves then to others.

Jessica Morgan 12 Apr 2006

um...all of the AW rules have been broken about a hundred times each(estimating I didn't count ok) The rules have been posted since these boards have existed..SOOO..AW has been kind to its members to say the least. Given WAY to much leeway. It's just time to enforce these rules now....and those that wish to break them have complete freedom to leave, or wait to get banned if they feel they'd like to blame someone else for thier own actions. I'm not going to beat around the bush. If you break rules, ALL of society has rules, then..sorry to say it..you just might be a trouble maker. Making any sense yet?

Katrina Papoutcharov 12 Apr 2006

Is it possible for there to be "rooms" to go to when they get out of line to hash it out there? Keep it off the board is it's a personal issue and not constructive or informative but out of hand? We artist are so full of blown up emotions and that is what makes our art what it is so ......"take it to a room" would be nice. "Get a room", "If this is going to get ugly could you take it to a room?" I know I was lost on some threads and when I ask what was going on was told mean things about another member so learned fast to not ask. So much cruel things going on on that board that I just stopped going there. I used to have a lot of fun there. I learned good things and laughed then I got leery and saw things written that were cruel. I saw gang warfair in there, I saw childish hurt going on, and I ran. For the most part the people here are great but I,for one, would love to talk to other artist without the gossip and fear of getting into a word war. Ignore? I did that...again, again, again, and again. Then tried to change it to fun but wouldn't work. There are some who just won't let it go. Take it to a room I say. I don't want to see it or get drug into it. I don't want to have to ignore so much of it. I don't want to be afraid to post. I think it's pretty bad when I have to ask what is going on just to find out it's petty word wars. Words, freedom of speach, etc. are not supposed to be used for harm here. This is an art site not a word war room.

Reba McDonald 12 Apr 2006

I'm afraid we can never rid ourselves of all the troublemakers we run across today. Could we members concentrate more on the display of our art? I don't like looking for trouble but sometimes it finds me. It would be super if adults acted more adult. I lile Eileen"s and Armando's awnsers.

Jude 12 Apr 2006

#ONE!

Cher Peterson 12 Apr 2006

When someone actually names an AW artist and harrasses them, like Sean has, it borders on bullying. But most of the time, Sean totally cracks me up with his witty remarks, including times he even berates himself. So, how does AW determine who is breaking the rules? And does the AW staff even have time to monitor the General Discussion board? Leave it be. If you don't want to participate in the General Discussion board as it is, then don't. Use the Art Discussion or other forums. #1 is my vote.

Jenni Mills 12 Apr 2006

I think there is a difference between an honest expression of opinion and people who are posting becasue they are bored. Someone who is expressing their opinion usually makes an attempt to explain their thoughts in a concise way. When someone is bored they may simply post smart "witty" comments or start personal attacks. I do think AW (though trying to be helpful here) has made it more difficult for artists on this particular thread to make an educated response because they haven't been precise about what is happening. Admittedly I have only caught the end of the proceedings, but from what I can gather it was not one person reacting to a post they felt wasn't nice (hence being thin skinned), but a whole bunch of different people having their threads intruded upon with comments that weren't related to the original thread. Once one person started, more jumped in with a gang like mentality.

I don't like options 1 or 2. I propose option 3......make a new rule. The new rule should state that an aritst can file a complaint against another artist IF THE SECOND ARTIST IS SEEN TO BE POSTING COMMENTS THAT ARE NOT RELATED TO A THREAD, AND/ OR ARE MAKING A PERSONAL ATTACK ON THE FIRST ARTIST. A personal attack doesn't need to be on that first artists thread. There has been a lot of "talking behind other's backs". To me, that is a person attack if it is done on the forum.

Please let me round off my arguement by saying that every artist here has a right to express their opinion. I agree that it is difficult to keep emotion out of things when you can't read facial expressions or hear a tone of voice. In my opinion this is the very reason we should try to make posts that are well thought out. Jokes are one thing when the recipient can see facial expressions and hear the tone of anothers voice, but in text, they just look like poking fun.

Terry Bassett 12 Apr 2006

First, Thanks to Christina for posting those rules. The rules as they stand seem to be pretty comprehensive, provided they are enforced in an even-handed way. As Christina said, "How can you be a trouble maker without breaking rules?" On that basis I'm happy with 1) Continue to run things as they have been and allow these type of posts to continue, as long as the rules are not broken.

Philo T. Fenstermacher 12 Apr 2006

So, tell me--just who will be defining this "troublemaker profile"?

I feel that being one of the preeminent troublemakers here at AW makes me particularly suited to such a task...

I suggest the formation of a cadre of "enforcers" (i.e. "Art Wanted Security Helpers Informing the Teacher") or A.W.S.H.I.T.....headed by an individual titled "Art Wanted's Fine Upstanding Lawman" or A.W.F.U.L.....

Betty Schwartz 12 Apr 2006

Perhaps, AW, it would be a good thing to post the RULES at the head of the forum boards!? It seems that many of us have forgotten them. AND - do start enforcing the rules you have made!?

Kathi Perry 12 Apr 2006

I agree with Pete Miller. Number 1.

The message boards are for everyone, to break out of the hum drum, to have fun and have discussions about "whatever" after all the general discussion does say it is for everything under the sun. If I don't like a topic I don't hang around and keep torchering myself by participating in it. For heaven sakes we can't all agree on every single subject, that doesn't even happen in the best of marriages. People who purposely visit topics that make them angry are looking for an excuse to be pissed at the site and the members who participate in the discussions. No one is making them look, no one is forcing you to read, no one is making you type something in reply. I again say NUMBER 1. Its fine the way it is. :)