stan jones 31 Jan 2005

How about this idea if say anyone and i mean anyone that has an account with AW if they decide to hit any rating in the 1/5 zone they get suspended from rating once the rate takes effect on the said persons portfolio so in other words they can not rate anymore some thing like a lock out

Then it can be taken up by the Staff that way the person can get a stern reprimand not only that AW staff can go into damage control a lot faster and hopefully the mess say like Pat has now could be avoided

then we will all turn our ratings back on and live in peace

well thats my say on the matter

Spurgeon Marshal 31 Jan 2005

I think that would be very cool to have that option. Premium members could be rated only by another premium member. I dont think the trouble makes that only wants to rate others badly wouldnt want to waste thier money. Also I sure would upgrade my account if this new function gets in to action. Good idea Sher, you sure have a powerful thinking cap;) idea cap, i must say. lol

stan jones 31 Jan 2005

i feel a lot better now i have given out my very first 5 not once but twice to some one and its going to continue

Juan Gomez 31 Jan 2005

They do have that feature guys..one thing it will hide comments from the public...that's the part I don't like..a private club of sorts...it's in your "Change user preferences" section in Member area...click on it and see.

ArtWanted.com Staff 31 Jan 2005

Thanks for the suggestions. Please continue to post them.

Only allowing Premium members to vote is not a bad idea, please give your feedback on this. The only problem we see with this is that there would be a huge drop in the number of votes you get, becasue only 5% of the members on our site are Premium account holders.

As far as the 1-5 lock out, we are not sure about this. If we did something like this, what would be the point to have the 1-5 numbers. The scale should just start at 6 if this were the case. There is no point ot a 1-10 rating scale if you can't use half of the numbers. However, it's not a bad idea to alert our staff when it happens so that we can look into their voting habbits and see if they are always giving low votes or just on a few images.

We plan a big update to the ratings sometimes this spring and are gathering all of your feedback for the new version of the ratings system, keep it coming.

eileen martin 31 Jan 2005

only 5% are paying members, that just amazes me. how does AW keep thier financial head above water?? i think anything that would increase paying members would be in AW's best interest.

RQ Trietsch 31 Jan 2005

If you don't want me to comment on your posting to your portfolio, just let me know. (all premium members)

Until I can post my wood works I will stay a "Freebie". Or find another site.

RQ

Patrick Miller 31 Jan 2005

Ok....I am going to break this down into two catagories. The things I like(or don't hate)...and the things I don't:

Things I like - I like the fact that the option would be a selection made by the user. So I am liking the fact that you can choose to not do it.

Things I don't like - It smacks of exclusionism, elitism....or whatever you choose to call it. Did ya ever go to the train station? Wouldn't it be cool if there was a seperate line for "normal" people so the ones who talk to themselves or yell alot could be far away? I know that is a stupid, extreme example...but do ya get the jist?

I have always thought that one of the cool things on this site versus like artsig, was the fact that you really didn't know who was a premium, or free account. It never comes up, because it doesn't matter.

I upgraded to a premium account very shortly after finding artwanted. I did it because I found myself spending a good deal of time on the site and I really liked it. But it is easy...I have the means and it was (to me) a drop in the bucket. I realize that may not be the case for all however, and I think it very cool that there is no class system to define that.

I do however, think Stans idea is workable in a fashion. I understand your concern Sher, and it is a real concern indeed. What if there were a function added that did not allow any member to rate below a 7 (for example) more than once per day in any one portfolio? I think artwanteds point is also a good one...the rating is there to be used. This would stop people from running amok through someones garden, but allow someone to do a true and honest critique at the same time.

If the proposed option were added, I would never use it, but some might like knowing it is there. But you can always just shut the ratings off until trouble passes.

Just my thoughts...sorry for ranting.

Corinne Quereau 31 Jan 2005

There's been so much grumbling about ratings lately, and I have to say that I don't really think the problem is the rating scale at all.

The problem is that the ratings are public, and that they are publicly rewarded with the Top Ten. Because of this, people are freaking out if they don't consistenly receive high marks and, in some cases, if they receive anything other than 10s. This is ridiculous.

This is not a popularity contest. The only reason I can see for having your artwork rated in the first place is to get a fair, unbiased view of the work you are currently doing. Working as an artist can be very isolating and some feedback can be absolutely invaluable. As I've said before, I use the ratings each month to get some perspective on what's good, what needs more work, and what should be sent to my portfolio.

With that in mind, I think it is becoming increasingly important to simply *hide the ratings*. Either block them from all but the artist himself or, at least have an option to do this in the "Preferences" section (there is currently an option in "Preferences" to hide the comments, but not the ratings). This way, a 3 among a sea of 10s would matter to no one other than the artist himself, and it will be much easier for an artist to disregard it if it isn't seen as a public humiliation.

Personally, I've stopped rating artwork altogether, for fear of hurting someone's feelings with an honest opinion or, worse, receiving a nasty email from a disgruntled artist. The alternative (rating only works I deem to be a 10 and skipping all the rest) seems counterproductive and a waste of time. Receiving only 10s each time I posted something would be great for my ego, but receiving a 7 with some constructive criticism would be far more helpful to me.

Hopefully, hiding ratings will free up both artists and raters from the "numbers" game, and allow us all to get back to work.

stan jones 31 Jan 2005

Hi Staff you have missed my point on this when a person gives a one /four there ratings should be stopped pending the outcome of why they gave that rate

how can we let people just run around the site hitting people

and i did it to prove a point to you my ratings should have been canned as soon as i hit the low rate but it has not stopped this person from carring on her merry way doing it still

sher richardson 31 Jan 2005

Stan and AW:

How about... a 1- 5 rating will be accepted with 40 words or more of why the work deserves a lower rating? That way clearly youll receive help to make the composition better etcetc...That would make sense from the standpoint of educating the image from the professional who rates it low to help in making it a better image : )

Patrick...

I doubt i would use the premium option only in cases of vacation or if i see some 'lisa simpson' on a rampage.. and then you betcha i would click a button to not accept 'dual' and 'duel' names on free 'make a hundred names accounts'...Elitism? Nothing of the sort. I am tired of seeing willynilly one time names target people and never be seen nor heard from again, until 8 months later to write rude and belittling remarks in a hit and run way.

AW...

Five percent paying membership surprises me... As a person who has a bit of a business background i would encourage you to make the premium membership more enticing and have a bit more control with the option of only accepting comments and ratings from 'like' peers... and comments only from those who have different free needs from your site.

sher richardson 31 Jan 2005

..and MARK.. VOA..

yep, i found the way around total free membership censorship...make it an option and a choice...

Christina Toews 31 Jan 2005

I am a free member, and I know that personally, if something was brought in that allowed only premium members to vote, I would become a member. I'm sure a lot more people would too. It's not "elite-ism" or anything... It's practical. I know if *I* was online just goofing around and giving people negative votes, I would definitely not want to pay to keep this up. It'll stop the trouble makers from carrying on.

As far as the whole "blocking" the 1-5 votes, that's ridiculous. That makes it no longer a 1-10 rating system. The idea about requiring a 40 word or more explanation for the low vote - definitely a great idea. I wouldn't mind if someone gave me a 4 if they explained why they thought it was worth a 4.

Another idea... just an idea... do we REALLY need the whole "Top Ten" concept? It seems THAT is the reason people are freaking out about the low votes, it kicks them out of the top tens. I also think that the concept of "Top Tens" is ridiculous if it's only based on ratings... I mean, seriously, some of the artwork in the top tens isn't always better than the rest of the artwork on the site. Sometimes people get into the top tens just because THEY are popular with the crowd, not because their ARTWORK deserves it. So the question is... could we get rid of "Top Tens"? Would anyone really miss them?

Interesting discussion though... looking forward to seeing what AW does about all this... :)

Spurgeon Marshal 31 Jan 2005

I think that 40 word comment for below 5's are good idea. good one Sher.

Mark Peterson 31 Jan 2005

This has been mentioned before hasn't it? A proposal in whos best interest? It would kind of make the free account holder feel unwelcome dont ya think? I know it does me&. and I honestly don't think it will be an effective solution to get people to join up with a premium account. Who knows maybe it will&. but segregation among artist? Hmmm&. There is already several here with their noses in the air and I think this would only add to that group and be a discouraging factor to those who only hold a free account. Think about what is being suggested here. The obvious solution in my opinion is getting rid of the numbers period! It doesnt take a genius to see what mess they have caused. Isnt this site suppose to be about art? The members can still have the option of voting for top ten work and the ability to hide any uncalled for comment in their portfolio. As I see it&.now you have no numbers with their psychological powers, no segregation and the members choice to hide any undesirable words. Now everybody wins&.simple, effective and no one made to feel less than.

This site has been turned into a playground for many, a social club for others and an avenue of release for some that obviously have no consideration for others. It has become a fractal playground of nothing but perfect work while the really good and other media art seems to get lost. Without the number&.even though they will have less comments than say the popular bunch, these artist left behind wont feel so left out&.they will feel a part of rather than a part from. Isnt this what our common goal is? To have a sense of belonging? I think it is important to consider these things and how people are affected. I have mentioned my opinion of the ratings in several threads now but I have yet to see anyone back me up as far as the psychology of the number. Is segregation the answer? NO&. Is getting rid of the number system the answer? POSSIBLY. As long as the number exist there will always be unfairness, why add exclusion to an already failing system. The number is a weapon and I see it being used more and more as a revenge tool only adding to the mess. Without this tool you are disarming the attacker and the ones who use it to retaliate, and when freedom of speech gets out of hand the member has the power of choice to hide it. Can you see why I am a free account holder? Why would I want to support a site where the people make me feel not welcome? Or apart from the crowd simply because of biased attitude.

I tend to agree with what Patrick is saying and I think it is important for all of us to talk about these things. We can all agree to disagree and let things go or we can discuss these issues In a rational manner and find a solution that works for everyone, and Sher&. I am not saying your suggestion is invaluable. Youre an excellent artist with a great deal of experience to back up your opinions. You speak of choice and the option to have this available to you, dont we the free account holders have the same right to freedom of choice? When I see an acknowledgement of a fair and equal system I am all for supporting it and until I do see it my opinion will always remain as stated above. Simply said I support art and valuable opinions not segregation. I do like some of the number options mentioned above which is a censorship for everyones benefit not just the paying member. Respectfully I can see everyones point of view and do support the finding of a solution. Its all about art and our expression, yet it has fallen to the recognition of a number and suggested censorship. Im sorry&.I cannot support what I do not believe in. The paying member pays to be able to upload as many images as they so desire&.this is your benefit for payment. Is this not enough?

Volunteer of America 31 Jan 2005

Patrick--been to an airport lately? There IS an entire line, waiting room (with bar)and better food for the FIRST CLASS ticket holders...(away from the people who yell, talk to themselves, smell bad, etc. etc.)

Patrick Miller 31 Jan 2005

Mark - I was hoping that nobody would bring that up..... :)

Sher - I reread your initial disclaimer...I hope ya don't think I was lambasting you. If it reads like that then it was not my intent at all.. :)

terence ulrich 31 Jan 2005

GOOOO Mark Peterson...you make sense man!!!

the ratings are Doody.

sher richardson 31 Jan 2005

Mark?

I will stand by my original proposal....some may call it segregation, i call it..what i pay for...freedom to express without retribution, and i express highly.......... AND no this idea is new... I wish the option to reject any non paying memebers 1's and 5's...

Mark Peterson 31 Jan 2005

Hi Sher,

I must say I admire your Integrity and soundness that you stand up for yourself and what you believe in. I appreciate that coming from anyone and it was not my intention to offend anyone with my previous post, but I would like to think that my opinion does matter since I am a part of this site regardless of my free membership status. I wish not to exclude anyone in anyway and I respect your good intentions to propose a solution to an on going problem. The courage to step up to the plate is what all good leaders are made of and I only have admiration of this quality. Your desire to have the option to stop the 1s and 5s is a worthy trait and most commendable of your character and I only wish for the same thing. My intentions are for fairness and good as are yours. So it would seem we are on the same team&.just with different viewpoints. Thank you for bringing this matter up, I thought it had been mentioned before. And please accept my sincere apology if I have offended you in any way.