Minnie Shuler 07 Jun 2009

Thanks Jerry. Alchol (rubbing), dawn, hair spray and nail polish remover do best at smearing ink (Zibra Z-grip). None, however remove the original lines but these 4 fade them dramatically. Works best on very slick surface paper. Porous paper soaks up the ink quickly and does not smear as well plus the ink lines increase in width and appear fuzzy to some extent. I tried also, Windsor & Newton Blending and Glazing Medium for oil paints, Vinegar, Linseed oil, Turpenoid, Salava, Odorless lamp oil, Crisco oil, Widnsor and Newton Artists' Painting Medium, Japan Oil Medium drying agent, and water. This last list did little to nothing on slick or absorbant papers. I have two or three more things to get from the store to try tomorrow. Also, different brands of pens may react differently. Just hypothetical, if you use an agent to smear the ink, is it still considered ballpoint pen art?

Minnie Shuler 07 Jun 2009

It sounds like I said alcohol and nail polish remover didn't work, then did work. And I did. They did not work on dried ink on porous paper, but they did work on fresh ink on very slick paper. In fact, on plastic or glass (if the pen will mark on it) they disolve the ink completely. Which leads back to the question...if you take the pen out of ballpoint pen art (ie a wash) is it still considered ballpoint pen art?

Jerry 07 Jun 2009

Minnie, it seems to me that you know considerably more about software applications or processes than I. You also have a software program that cost about six times as much as mine. I feel like a fish out of water or rookie next you Minnie. However, I will keep my chin up and keep on trucking!

If you try working on a canvas the ink will be sitting more on the surface than with a soft absorbent paper. You can also place your turpentine, linseed oil, painting medium or other compounds directly on the canvas then apply a ballpoint ink. (The bold tip puts out far more ink than a fine one, correct!) If lots of pigment and oil is placed on a saturated (wet) canvas one effect will take place verses a fine line or little ink, right.

I need to learn the merging effect via a software program. Morphing and the Panorama functions of my software do some cool things Minnie. My software has a blurring or sharpening function. I can blur out a picture pretty far if so desired!

I did a quick two in one picture to show how I altered one of my ballpoint pen drawings for you Minnie. Have a blessed day, Jerry

Jerry 07 Jun 2009

Minnie, you’re presenting much quick information therefore I’ll have to regroup! My artist friend now living in Canada is running acrylic paint through his ballpoint pens. I would like to address that issue plus ask others what they think about that topic as well.

Please let me examine your statements so I can reply to your points or questions. Your friend, Jerry

Jerry 07 Jun 2009

Justino Magalona is from the Philippine Islands and is currently residing on the west coast of Canada. He’s another person I told about ArtWanted.com. You can located his gallery here at AW via is name. The yellow pictures at the bottom of his gallery are completed with acrylic paints run through a ballpoint pen. He’s currently trying to find a sponsor!

Minnie Shuler 07 Jun 2009

Justino's work is fantastic. I am guessing but, the acrylic pens he designates must be the acrylic paint in ballpoint pens. Very creative. Gives it a very textured look. His plain black ballpoint work is also fantastic. Thanks

Minnie Shuler 08 Jun 2009

Here is the test sheet of the items I have tested so far. I read where goo gone will remove ballpoint pen ink from clothes so I will get some of that and test it, as well a amonia, paint remover and laquer. Minnie

Jerry 08 Jun 2009

Minnie, I’ve been reviewing and thinking about your information, findings, questions and or materials posted. There seems to be a silver lining in what’s being presented for me as a ballpoint pen artists. An opportunity to make an artistic comparison of art mediums, a time to clarify some points of reference plus room for my opinion on such matters.

Maybe others would like to express their views on what’s going on? Leadership of an art movement is determined in places like this because those with knowledge get to speck out while the rest simply read or follow. Picking up one's marbles and going home is much different than comprehensive replies or credible statements of facts folks. Some things in life simply separate the men from the boys and dealing with situations like this is one of them, in my opinion. What do they say, it's time to take a stance or sit down and take a number?

I’m preparing a rather lengthily statement that should clearly present my views as a pen and ink artist or ballpoint user!

Your friend, Jerry

P.S. I’m loving your test sheet!

Jerry 08 Jun 2009

(Minnie asks) Which leads back to the question...if you take the pen out of ballpoint pen art (ie a wash) is it still considered ballpoint pen art?

(Jerry) Minnie, I think when a brush or different agent, compound or solution is added to a ballpoint pen drawing it then becomes a mixed medium. If a person spreads or distributes ink around with something other than with a pen or ballpoint it will be determined as an ink art work or project. I think the word ballpoint or pen gets dropped at that point! A ballpoint pen out sells all other pen systems because it’s the only oil-based ink being used. Why change the most successful or popular pen system if it works best?

If you cut open a ballpoint pen’s ink reserve you’ll access more ink quickly to experiment or work with, right!

Here’s an abstract ballpoint pen mixed medium artwork for your viewing.

Jerry

Minnie Shuler 08 Jun 2009

I may not agree with that totally. Acrylic and Oil have many mediums added to them, it doesn't make them mixed media. I think to be a mixed media you would have to be using another stand alone art medium. As companies progress, their ink formulas may change. Does work from those ball point pens become mixed media? I don't think so. Since it will erase, are erasable ink pens considered acceptable as ballpoint pen art? I think so. The implement used may cause a different issue. Are acrylic paintings done on porcelain, glass or under pressure of a stream of air any less acrylic paintings? Do the acrylic paintings done by Justino become ballpoint pen art simply because he used ballpoint pens to deliver the acrylic paint? Interesting questions. Are the pieces you morphed or changed with the computer mixed media and no longer ballpoint pen art? (Digital art is a stand alone medium, just as fractals are) To me, just as a personal opinion, if the dominate medium is ballpoint pen (original manufacturer's pen), then the piece can be called ballpoint pen.

On another note....I found today that goo gone does not work to smear the ink from a Zebra Z-grip purple pen. A product called OOPS! is an amazing remover and will remove or spread the ink until there is just very faded line remaining on very slick paper, doesn't work as well on absorbant paper. Same pen. ACE Lacquer Thinner High Strength is the product, it will completely remove the ink line, but I don't think can be used as an eraser, as it does smear the ink right down to the original paper on very slick paper and while it smears well on absorbant paper it won't remove the line. I think, Jerry, when ballpoint pen catches on enough to have sets sold at art supply stores that you will see many manufacturer's products that pop up to use with ballpoint pen. Including a product that will correct mistakes by removing the ink and not damaging the paper. Turpenoid didn't remove old BIC black ink either,not even a hint of a smear. I guess crooks found something to remove ink and preserve the paper quite sometime back or we wouldn't need safety/security pens for checques. Your friend, Minnie

Jerry 08 Jun 2009

Minnie, you’re addressing many points of interest plus have been presenting some great questions! Much food for thought! I however think that each point or question has to be focused on individually if such is going to get nailed down or defined properly. Maybe bringing up such is enough, what do you think?

I’m going through each of everyones messages in order to write down things of interest. Next, I’m going to look at the history of pen and ink, point out different art mediums characteristics and elaborate on ballpoint drawings or artworks. It will take sometime to compose those thoughts.

Your friend, Jerry

BUFFALO GRAPHICS Dennis Karchner 08 Jun 2009

You are doing a "bang up" job Jerry!! Keep 'em coming!!--Denny ;{

Minnie Shuler 08 Jun 2009

I guess you could do that, Jerry. Just keep in mind, these things have a way of making their own way. Perhaps it's just enough to sit back and see what creative minds can do. Labels aren' t that important to me....beauty and enjoyment of the piece of art are what gives it longivity. Anyway, here is the rest of my testing. Goo Gone, it seems does work with a cotton swab and a lot of scrubbing on very slick paper. I'm thinking what a benefit and creative expansion it is to know what will controllably smear ballpoint pen ink and under some circumstances erase it completely (with a little baggage). Gone would be the fear of making a mistake or throwing away a piece where you may have erased your pencil line too soon and smeared the wet ink unintentionally.

I know that if you look at what has been allowed in other mediums you may just get some answers and be able to view it more objectively. For instance, watercolor....watercolor artists use so many techniques and other things besides paint, brushes and water. They use sponges, salt, wax, liquid frisket, plastic wrap, ink pens, credit cards, bubble wrap, wax paper, crayons, razor blades, tooth brushes for splattering etc. Even their paint comes different ways...watercolor pencil, pan watercolors and tube watercolors. You even use Chinese white that is opaque. But, acrylics, which is a water based medium (or at least it used to all be waterbased but Acrylic Enamels are not) is not considered watercolors. Why, because you cannot remove it once it is on the paper and because it has opaque colors that you can just paint over other paint. Some competitions use the term transparent watercolors to distinquish it from acrylics. Now that they have waterbased oil paints, will they be considered watercolors as many of them are transparent, but like the acrylic they have some opaque colors. Some people even use the many water soluable colored inks as watercolors or at least they use watercolor techniques. Are they watercolors? I do not know, they are pigment and water. Cheers, Minnie

Pete Miller 08 Jun 2009

In the beginning Good always overpowered the evils Of all man’s sins....... But in time The nations grew weak And our cities fell to slums While evil stood strong In the dusts of hell Lurked the blackest of hates For he whom they feared Awaited them....... Now many many life times later Lay destroyed, beaten, beaten down, Only corpses of rebels Ashes of dreams And blood-stained streets....... It has been written Those who have the youth Have the future So come now children of the beast Be strong And shout at the BALLPOINT!!

(START COOL 80'S METAL RIFF.....) (BANG HEAD AT YOUR OWN RISK)

Minnie Shuler 09 Jun 2009

I called this one OOPS! I guess you know why. Didn't touch it with a brush.

Minnie Shuler 09 Jun 2009

And the backside is more interesting than the front. Total serendipity, no touchups

Minnie Shuler 09 Jun 2009

Now this is fiddled around with the computer. The only tangible art medium used here is ballpoint pen. It is made from the backside, and I called it TaDah!

Minnie Shuler 09 Jun 2009

And the winner is TaDah!2

Minnie Shuler 09 Jun 2009

Now integrated into the original drawing....called Back-A-Step

Jerry 09 Jun 2009

Minnie, you’ve been presenting many outstanding examples, test results or new ideas my friend which works great at an art forum like ArtWanted.com. Ballpoint pen art can and might be defined as the major portion of a work as you mentioned in certain sectors of the world. No doubt!

Your knowledge of new art mediums is impressive. So what are you actually saying? It sounds like you’re defining the direction or scope of ballpoint pen art! That's brilliant or too cool...

I’m afraid my perspective, interest, direction or views as a ballpoint pen publisher differs from your wide range definition. It’s all good mind you!

As a publisher only drawings with the ballpoint pen are being published at my blog or sites. I guess I’m a purest at that point Minnie. The drawing side of ballpoint pen art is undeveloped as a major art movement worldwide and my interest remains focused on introducing it to the world.

Several AW members in this thread are doing or talking about mixed mediums. I’m one of those people. Introducing a ballpoint pen as a mixed medium is beyond my reach as a publisher. It’s an exceptional field of interest, a very exciting area to explore and presents too much for me to handle at my sites or blog. You and the others certainly can produce art history, emerge as an international artist/ publisher and gain popularity by doing so Minnie.

This tread certainly can become that platform if you so desired such. Marching up hit, reaching out to many other artists and ideas is really a great concept or reality. You might even start a group here with AW pertaining to ballpoint art as a mixed medium! I however don’t ever see me posting such at my sites as a publisher. The world is too large to take on every part of the art world from my experience. I’ll leave that chore to AW or others with similar interest.

Maybe you’ll do a write up on the direction of ballpoint pen art as a fine art medium? I’ll stick with the line work, dark colored inks and long flowing lines produced with a ballpoint pen just like the past forty-one years.

You have a tremendous challenge ahead of you if such a direction is of interest. Or you can grab the bull by the horns and fight your way to the top by doing more with fractals and your special lighting style. There’s a really big world of interest and you’ve opened that door therefore following through or defining such might be in order. What do you think?

Your friend, Jerry

Your new works are very colorful, delightful and or cool!