Kari Franklin 30 Oct 2006

Dan, I didn't book mark the sites I just read through them, but off hand I'd say this is a very good place to start.

http://www.gravestonestudies.org/faq.htm

Naturally it's extremely important that no damage comes to the stone,(and some of them are quite fragile and so can't be used), so here is a good list of what to do and not to do. (Scroll towards the bottom of the page for the dos and donts)

I did my rubbings quite a number of years ago and it wasn't much of an issue then, but Gravestone rubbing is something that you will need to get a permit for now a days, so if you are able to find a cemetery that allows them, be sure to obtain your permit before starting out.

At this point, because rubbings do speed up the decay process in the stones, it is suggested that photography is the preferred method for recording stones since it does not necessitate touching or manipulating the stone in any fashion.

And here are a couple of resource sites with tips for photographing of stones and markers.

http://www.stoneangels.net/photoview.asp?Post=10

http://www.genealogy.com/64_gravestones.html

Joseph 30 Oct 2006

Let the Dead Bury the Dead. Let the Artists and Photographers do tributes, shoot or paint them. In the end... who cares.

By the way anyone who shoots my grave owes me a percentage. Trust me I'll be back to collect. ~Wraith~

Dan Perez 30 Oct 2006

Thanks for the info. I may never get to use it but it's nice to know about. Living in New England, It's very hard to get a permit to do grave rubbing. So many of the cemetaries have put a stop to it because the ones with the most inetersting stones are also the oldest and most fragile. So many of the cemetaries here are very old.

We have a lot of historical figures buried in these parts whose graves were very popular during the days when stone rubbing was common and allowed without retsriction. We also have Salem nearby....as one might imagine, the graves there attracted a lot of attention over the years until many became worn down.

So, it's exteremly rare to find a cemetary in this part of the country that will allow it. At least none that I know of have any regulations against photography, so that's still an option.

Pat 'Gracie' Merewether 30 Oct 2006

I take photos of gravestones all the time - I've never felt guilty or unethical about it - to me they are often times works of art that few people will ever get to see.

I must admit I have not read the other posts on this thread as I have a splitting headache and just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in because I like grave markers.

Carson Collins 30 Oct 2006

I'm quite sure the dead people don't mind. Probably good taste (not ethics) would require one to wait a decent period of time before using such a photo for humor or satire...

30 Oct 2006

Brian Sherwin 30 Oct 2006

The gov sites wrote me back, but they did not offer any good information. Just a phone number.

However, one sent me something about copyright laws. I suppose they meant that the tombstone designs are copyrighted... I will assume they were talking about modern tombstones.

It is illegal to take photos in the cememtary in my town. Found out by calling city hall. SO if you take photos make sure it is cool.

Kari Franklin 31 Oct 2006

Gotcha Brian, thanks for the update :-)

Dan Perez 31 Oct 2006

I found this site which has some info explaining copyright and photography. basically it seems that individual cemetaries can make up their own rules around this and it's always best to check first. The laws around it are very vague as you are dealing with cemetaries that rae generally public sites and graves which are considered private property. The copyright issues are also vague when you are talking about very old stones.

Their advice seems to be that you can feel pretty confident in taking photos and using them without recourse as long as the cemetary does not prohibit it.

31 Oct 2006

Dan Perez 31 Oct 2006

I think we may be mixing ethics and morals in this discussion. Ethically, it is acceptable to photograph something that is publicly displayed including a gravestone. Morally there could be a question depending on how the photo is used.

If used to make fun or create something comical, the artist may be doing something that culd be hurtful to the family of the deceased and that raises a moral question for the artist.

For instance, if I were to see a photo that someone took of my grandparents grave and the photo seemed to be attempting to capture the sadness of loss or something spiritual or mystical, I would be able to apprecaite it and probably enjoy what the photographer did. If it depicted someone partying on the grave, I would be upset.

I recently took a photo of a new grave that had someone recently buried in it and was still covered with the funeral flowers. It would indicate that the person had been buried within a day or so of my photographing it. The intent was to possibly use it as something very sublime and sadly beautiful. the photo was done so that the name on the grave can't be seen. Still, I have some questions as to whether or not it would be morally appropraite to use it and may end up going in a different direction. Either using one of the photos I took of graves from the 1700's or using my grandparents grave so as not to cause anyone distress.

BTW, the copyright issue on graves comes into play with the carving. So many graves have images carved into them that are another artists work. I think it has more to do with that than the names or dates.

arnold quentin 31 Oct 2006

I have taken pictures of tombstones because they are interesting and sign posts of history. They tell a story from the past, that should not be forgotten.

I have one called "Freedom". It is the grave of a black man that was wounded at the Battle of the North Bridge. You do not see this history in books.

Brian Sherwin 31 Oct 2006

Well... you do in some books. :P

I still say it might be wise to contact the family if it is a recent gravesite.

I mean, say you took a pic of a grave that is two years old and the image because a hit with people. You end up making a large sum of money from it and the family finds out... they might want a chunk of it. I would think a jury would agree with the side of the family. Thus, it is better to try and find the family or take images of gravesites of people you have known. Just to be safe.

Who knows, you may learn more about the person that may inspire you to take the piece to the next step.

01 Nov 2006

joan warburton 01 Nov 2006

I read somewhere that you can take photos for your own personal use but cannot profit on them without making an attempt to contact a family member.

If you can show a paper trail of attempting to contact and you have not been able to, the oeniss is on the person who challenges you to prove that you did something wrong.

01 Nov 2006

Brian Sherwin 01 Nov 2006

Question... graves are private property... the family buys the lot and it is considered private. Correct?

So... doesn't that mean that you would have to have permission since it is private property. I don't think the family 'owns' the lot, but don't they get papers for it?

Maybe if the photo is taken from a public area it would be ok? I don't know. This is a really tricky issue.

HEY! I got an idea on how I can find out without calling that gov number. I'll report back soon.

Dan Perez 01 Nov 2006

The grave itself is private property but usually the cemetary is public. You could make the argument that you should only take a photo from the public raod of the cemetray but, tehre is the issue that getting to your own private gravesite often requires you to cross over someone else's private property. Therefore the rules around private property become gray.

Also the private proprty in qeustion is publicaly displayed.

I got this off the site I linked earler in their FAQ section. There is a discussion of private vs public property in relation to graves and cemetaries.

01 Nov 2006

Brian Sherwin 01 Nov 2006

I'd still be careful with recent graves though. People have been sued for less.

Regardless of what the law might be... a jury will most likely side with a crying family.

Hey, since we are talking about graves. Did you know that they have came up with a new way to dispose of bodies? They can now freeze dry and then 'shatter' the remains with a machine. The 'dust' is better quality than what fire can create. You can even save it and have the 'remains' turned into a stone for a ring or necklace. Heard on the radio today.

Imagine wearing your family as a necklace!