Ric Strange 16 Apr 2006

I think , I think I outta quit reading these before morning meds -"....whats wrong with this picture ?"- #3 is insecure and defensive instead of choosing to contemplate or ignore your opinion . A secure person and (thus not in the defensive mode), if given time to think about it would choose #1 or #2 I'd say . Yes thats it in a nutshell Joan .

Laura Smith 16 Apr 2006

Huh?

=}

david bass 16 Apr 2006

perfect example joan

2 people not that offended. you never hear from'em

1 person offended you hear their whines.

i tried earlier to say something similar but i think joan articulated it best

Kathi Perry 16 Apr 2006

Good analysis Joan... you are always the voice of reason :)

Maddison Jamison 16 Apr 2006

OK, I've sat and read more of the responses here over the last couple of days and two things occur to me blatantly.

1) There are a lot of members at AW who for one reason or another (or maybe many reasons) feel they cannot or should not participate on the message boards for fear of retaliation or harassment by someone.

From my observations in just the last few days alone, I see an awful lot of animosity between and about certain members. Warranted or not, this kind of thing does not build a strong art community. What it does is divide the members and put up walls that some will never penetrate. Having thick skin has nothing to do with being treated with respect and dignity.

2) It appears that there are several very opinionated voices here who have a lot to contribute in positive ways and have great suggestions on improving the "human" element we all deal with, just like in the "real" world. It also appears to me (just an observation) that the same few characters pop in and out and make personal remarks directed at specific individuals without any basis. From all appearances, these individuals appear to be picking fights with others. Silly pictures, finger-pointing and just plain rude inuendo. ? Was what they posted positive and did it add any value to this conversation?? My opinion again, NO!

And Joan, I completely get where you are coming from. Everyone perceives words differently. It's human nature. I don't believe that is the bigger picture here. The bigger picture is that AW will ultimately determine who is making trouble and I would guess they are smart enough (as are many members it appears) to ascertain when someone is goofing off and when someone is out for blood. The nasty name-calling, following people from thread to thread to put their two-cents in where it's not desired seems quite obvious. These same few are apparently unable to control themselves and follow their own advice, SKIP IT IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONTENT OR COMMENT.

One more thing, it also appears that a few will post with absolutely no content. Is that because they have nothing original or positive to contribute OR are they using their posts to "block" or keep others from posting below them. There seems to be a pattern of this behavior.

AW, have you taken notes on any of this yet? I know I'm new to the boards but I'm not an idiot and neither are a lot of others who have spoken out here.

Katrina Papoutcharov 16 Apr 2006

Sean is hilarious and his wit is in no way the reason for me saying #2, it is for the drawing blood and very very hurtful words I've seen,(no matter how skillfull you are at them and you know who you are);words that caused couples trauma, words that were flat lies and meant to cause harm. I saw one point out an artist useing anothers art as his own, this was great because it was true, I am talking about the cruel intent based for harm and harm alone. It is going on and far too much. I accidently got drug into what I thought was another funny thread but wasn't. A&W surely reads these boards so can see what is unjustified and what is. They should back up the rules. Plain common sense knows the difference and hopefully there is some among the people I pay every month........that's all, some common sense to see the one's causeing harm, period and warn them and more if they continue. I used to laugh long and hard on the message board until I got drug into one of the messes by accident. Just make the rules stand, don't post and exspect everyone to read/follow them. Too many words here I know but for crying out loud, there are those who went too far more than once and to ignore, not go there, etc. over the same trouble makers is not worth paying for. I voted #2 and I have never caused trouble on that board, never. I still vote #2 if AW doesn't back up the rules a bit.

rosemary gioielli 16 Apr 2006

Katerina Koukiotis 16 Apr 2006

WOW! Laura that is terrible someone told you to F--off

I think that's disgusting and I'm sorry to read you feel you needed that, I see that as an insult, a mockery towards you as an artist and as a woman I feel it's degrading.

Would you like people you don't know walking down the street to call you that? I don't think you would and it's the same thing with whats happening here.

It's sad you don't see the person who told you that was trying to belittle you and to make you feel bad, I find that so insulting, of course you may like that or feel you needed that as a kick in the pants for whatever reason but i don't need that and i wouldn't like anyone female or male to address me in that rude pathetic manner and this is what AW needs to change to protect those who don't condone or like being attacked.

I'm sorry you see that kind of behavior as supportive is nothing but degrading to me-a supportive message to you would be something like this ... keep on going Laura don't give up on your art or your love for it and try and be there in a positive way and not in a bashing stupid way.

And I'm sorry to see some of you will make any excuse in the book even go far as condone behavior like this to keep things as it is.... a BIG old mess, i understand some of you have friendships with some of the people who go out of their way to insult and attack artists but all you do is helping this chaos and attacks to continue and that needs to be stopped and AW should step in and stop it.

For those who keep insisting #2 won't work, well #1 hasn't worked at ALL so it's time for a change and change is good.

The one thing that always works in art is when artists have support from each other and their work and when you don't have that you have nothing. And I'm sorry but I don't see that kind of support among AW artists all I see is attackers and jealousies .

I would like AW to consider this, new artists join AW everyday it should be a welcoming friendly place for all artists and as of now it's not because of these individuals who take upon themselves to act like gang leaders around here and gang up on artists.

No artist should experience what I did.

I want to thank all the wonderful artists who were not afraid to express their opinions and support positiveness and a change I think that is wonderful :)

joan warburton 16 Apr 2006

AW, there's someone bumping posts anonymously tonight. It's been a nice day on AW today. The only controversial stuff has been on this thread but that's what it was set up for.

Tonight someone's gone and bumped up threads from last week and has done it the cowardly way, by removing his name. I could care less except this is an outspoken person who has constantly insisted that YOU must get rid of the "troublemakers".

Will the real "troublemaker" please stand up?

Laura Smith 16 Apr 2006

Hi Katerina, Just to clarify, no one told me to F-Off at all. "Boo F'in who" does not by any stretch of the imagination mean F-Off. I also stated that those words posted was an exerpt of the post.. the rest was supportive and great advice. You completely mis-interpreted my post.

And there folks, is the reason #2 is impossible. My interpretation of that post was totally different... and It WAS welcomed and together with the supportive posts.. exactly what I needed. I will stand by that. There was a wonderful healthy balance... which is always what I've received on the boards.

I guess there are some people that find that a harsh dose of reality is always a negative thing.. but I much rather prefer a good honest kick in the pants to get myself up and out of pity city. I sold a print the next day and have been creating more art then ever! My self esteem must be in tact enough to understand the difference I guess.

I am amazed that was the message you got Katerina.. wow. I'm not making excuses for anyone to keep things as is. I don't need to. I have NEVER had ONE bad experience here... so I have no chip on my shoulder to draw emotions from. I also keep myself from getting drawn into any threads I may not want to.. by simply using what I've suggested before.. the back space button. Simple. Easy.

It is now quite CLEAR to me how much some people read more into things then others... and can misinterpret the intentions of the posts on the boards. Perhaps this means we all need to be a little more sensitive on how we word the things we post because they quite obviously have many different meanings. Language barriers are probably a factor as well. All the best to everyone here.

My eyes have been opened.

Kathi Perry 16 Apr 2006

Laura you are a sweet generous person with a beautiful smile, and what a great attitude you have. I read your post and totally understood what you meant and I for one am very encouraged that you found the "kick in the a$$" to be motivation to better yourself. I think your experience here could be a good lesson for all of us :) ((hugs))

david bass 16 Apr 2006

well said laura

Nea Fransson 17 Apr 2006

I ditto what Kathi and David says. Lauras post are by far the most reasonable contribution to this thread! I dig you Laura! (Don't blush..I mean it! :-))

Charles Oliver 17 Apr 2006

I very rarely ever get near these boards but, I know this as I know it in all of life... some people are harsh, some are overly sensitive. If you think you are being personally attacked you can lower yourself to the attackers level by responding in kind if it makes you feel better. You can also just consider the source and ignore the drivel. The main thing is to realize it takes all kinds of people, from all walks and all attitudes to make a community. Take measure of your sensibilities and sensitivities. I really wouldn't worry much about what others have to say. Concern yourself with what you yourself has to say. That's your responsibility. What others say is not.

Katerina Koukiotis 17 Apr 2006

Very well said charles i can care less what some of them have to say or think about me especially given how some of them don't want a resolution to a very obvious problem.

Just because someone is sensitive doesn't mean that should be an open invitation for someone to step all over them harass them abuse or attack them and that is what I want to stop obviously there are a small group of people here who enjoy being abused and I don't, I was minding my own business sharing something with friends when I was intruded and ganged up on and that kind of mentality needs to stop.

Like you I don't post much at the forums here but that doesn't mean AW shouldn't have some kind regulation or moderation and leave a pack of wolves loose. I'm participating more in this discussion because I believe and support what AW is trying to do plus I was attacked, and I also believe a lot of the posters in this thread have an agenda here to take off the real focus of the discussion.

Laura I don't know why you're amazed what I had to say given you even emailed me about this topic, you know my feelings about this situation very well. I'm not a fan of abuse, I'm not interpretation anything ... you yourself posted you were taken aback from this person's harshness to you, then for whatever reason you accepted the attack as a kick in the pants it's your prerogative .. personally i find it sad...but that doesn't mean just because you may enjoy or like that kind of abuse for all of us to accept it, and sometimes hitting the back space is not that easy if it's a topic you started and was intruded and ganged upon (that is what happened to me), and just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean you should discard when it happens to other people and be insenstive toward their feelings, thats why option #2 is needed so AW can be fair and protect those who don't enjoy being attacked. That's all. It's very simple. And I hope AW does something about it.

Bo Fransson 17 Apr 2006

More kicks on AW! I support that! :-)

Linda Eades Blackburn 17 Apr 2006

I think Laura is correct. It all seems to be in the interpretation. Can't fix that. People see things they way they choose to.

Linda Nelson 17 Apr 2006

The people who write the posts can take into consideration the diverse nature of the members on this very very public forum. It is not at all private, and anyone on the internet can read it. It can even come up on a google search years later.

Laura Smith 17 Apr 2006

I agree with both Linda's here and I would agree we all can be more sensitive to how we express our opinions but I will stop at saying we shouldn't express them at all.

I'm also going to go out on a limb to simply say that based on some people's interpretation of what is abusive.. and/or troublesome that the message boards are simply not for everyone.

Bo Fransson 17 Apr 2006

"if you write about a sewing needle..there always pops up a one eyed nut who takes offense..."