jim rownd 04 Jul 2009

"Show me a nice photo"

see now thats your problem right there. copying a photo. just cause it's a photo doesn't make it right. as a artist you have the ability to take it further. Look at the master painters. Maybe you can't see it? I can.

jim rownd 04 Jul 2009

"Allan Barbeau and Jerry Stith are two of the top ballpoint pen artists on the WWW which now has over a billion registered users. We're International leaders because we work hard, stay focused"

Wow!!!....Jerry you need to focus on some basic fundamentals of drawing first.

Nikolaus 04 Jul 2009

I don't know what all the fuss is about on this thread when everyone already knows that "I" am the greatest Ball Point Pen artist on the planet...

in fact, before that... I invented the ball point pen ;)

Allan Barbeau 05 Jul 2009

"see now thats your problem right there. copying a photo. just cause it's a photo doesn't make it right. as a artist you have the ability to take it further. Look at the master painters. Maybe you can't see it?"

Hey hey !! Let's just stay constructive and friendly. It's get hot in there :) I don't know if you work for yourself as an Artist but i do. Coping costumer's photo is my fulltime job.

I never say that I was a Master Painter and I'm just trying to pleased my costumers with the poor photo they gave me. But all my orders are done with other medium than ballpoint pen and I don't have anything under my hand to show you that I do not agree with you.

but I doubt that there is any point to continue to argue ;)

jim rownd 05 Jul 2009

well said minnie

oh no not you to Nick?!

"Hey hey !! Let's just stay constructive and friendly".

I thought I was being constructive and I am trying to say it in a nice way.

look at the link I posted. there's a photo I posted in it I used as ref. notice on the hair how I bumped it up to give it more form.

the only reason I'm spending time responding to you is because you are a great artist and like so many artist I see here that copy photo's. Who get so wrapped up on copying what they see they forget that the photo should only be a starting point or that you can use more then one photo ref. to get the job done.

You have the talent to go there!

example: you get a photo of a face. It has that red lenses flare in the eyes. you wouldn't want to copy that? So as an artist you can fix it. This same thought process should be applied to other area's. problem is the ballpoint has large limitations that make it almost impossible to do.

Believe me I know criticism is hard to take. I work as an Illustrator and get it a lot. thank god it's threw e-mails today unlike the old days of phone calls. I ended up getting a phobia about answering the phone. At least an e-mail gives me some time to reflect on what I've been told and the client doesn't get hear me telling them to F*%k off. which is always my first reaction to any criticism.

wow! hey look I rambled on! Jerry should be proud of me.

Allan Barbeau 05 Jul 2009

I see exactly what your talking about and I agree with the fact that we can go behond the photo when it's required. Some times I go as well far behond the model (see this acrylique portrait of my brother ). Do you think that he as this costume ;)

http://www.creations-artisallan/images_forum/philippe.jpg

But one day, I will have a ballpoint pen picture to prove that you are not right with this shiny story about haire.

I'll be back 8)

Nikolaus 05 Jul 2009

Obvoiusly I was joking in my previous comments ;)

It was an illustration on how easy it is to claim to be King on the internet and yet not be so. Kind of like it is in alot of bars around the country, guys trying to convince girls that they are doctors or lawyers....just because they claim to be doesn't make it so.

I can't hold a candle to Allan Barbeau when it comes to Ball Point Pen art.

I agree with Jim Rownd and Denny though...i don't get it, why use a Ball Point Pen to do "art", just to say we used a ball point pen?

I can't imagine the awesome stuff you could do using traditional materials.

Linda Eades Blackburn 05 Jul 2009

I figure people use what ever medium feels right to them. So be it, as long as it is tested to last. People who buy your art should be able to expect it to last at least their life time and many expect to be able to pass it down through their family.

Other than that? Who cares what you use to make art. I don't find the medium, any medium that is to be superior to another. I am not impressed that something is done in ball point over traditional pen and ink. So what? Just another medium. Like Oil versus Acrylic, or Graphite versus Colored Pencil.

Personally, I do not care what you use only how well you use it.

The more people talk about how good they are or how fantastic their medium is, the more I think that their art NEEDS selling, or their ego needs inflating, or is already over-inflated......... boring either way.

Linda Eades Blackburn 05 Jul 2009

I figure people use what ever medium feels right to them. So be it, as long as it is tested to last. People who buy your art should be able to expect it to last at least their life time and many expect to be able to pass it down through their family.

Other than that? Who cares what you use to make art. I don't find the medium, any medium that is to be superior to another. I am not impressed that something is done in ball point over traditional pen and ink. So what? Just another medium. Like Oil versus Acrylic, or Graphite versus Colored Pencil.

Personally, I do not care what you use only how well you use it.

The more people talk about how good they are or how fantastic their medium is, the more I think that their art NEEDS selling, or their ego needs inflating, or is already over-inflated......... boring either way.

Minnie Shuler 05 Jul 2009

The Apalachee Tribe of Creek Indians advised their members to have portraits painted. The Chief and his wife are great friends of mine for many years. Chief Andrew had a newspaper clipping of an offical Seminole Indian dress. He wanted his portrain done in that native costume. Ok...some photo, some clipping, some model. Wesa, his wife, who was one of my high school teachers said...Minnie, I want you to make me look pretty and slim. If it was a photograph I couldn't do that but since it was a painting she wanted her appearance changed. She said, you can make me slim or purple or whatever you want since it is a painting. True, but all that relies on my skill. Ok, many sketches,contacts and things later...slim wife of the chief and younger looking. Marshall, her son, she wanted in full indian dress...several photos to go by. Ok. Another person, here are two photos one of mother when she was younger and one now. I want her as she is now but her eyes like the other photo. No, this doesn't look like the same woman, I can't make it fit together....find another artist. I have some limitations. Railroad engineer, Tom Keenan, need this portrait for museum. Here is a nice pic of him from a newspaper article. Pic size 1.5 in by 1.5 in. Good lighting....blown up looks like antique low resolution graphics. Time short, attempted it anyway...ok...they were very pleased. Lots of filling in between the lines. Gread shadows, lights and contrast. Another...Here's a pic of my father's face...I want him in a boat fishing on the river...show face up close. Ok....many studies before completion. It has never ceased to amaze me what people will want you to paint. I am sure many of us have had similar experiences. I don't, however, think any of these portraits were 'fine art'. They were all oil. I think it would have taken 10 times longer to have done them in ballpoint pen oil. It's nice to suggest to a person to do a different medium....it is quite another to expect them to just be able to switch so easily. I know I do not yet have the skills in BPpen to do the same jobs I did with oil. If you told me (just because it is possible) to do my portraits in BPpen....I would think...Are you nuts? Do what you do best Allan...your work is wonderful.

Allan Barbeau 05 Jul 2009

What I don't get is .... why you don't get it !!! maybe, I like ballpoint pen cause it take time to do it right !?

When I do painting for my costumers (after all, they choose what medium they want ), that is true that i spend the quarter of the time than I spend with ballpoint pen.

The difference is when people look at my paintings, they say "Wow, it's well done" and that it ! If I show up the same portrait done with ballpoint pen (yes, I'm sure I can do the same ;), they say " Wow, it's well done... but what did you use, I can't figure it out ? Ballpoint pen ? OMG !! How you do that !?" And they look at me with a different eye !! That what I'm looking for with this Medium ! That why I persist with it ! To be different from the billion other artist.

The crazy french how draw with colored ballpoint pen !

In France, I'm not known to by a portrait painter. I'm known to be a colored ballpoint pen artist and it's what make me different !

Does it make sens to you ?

;)

WESTERN ARTWORK By Denny Karchner 05 Jul 2009

Makes all the sense in the world to me Allan. You do what makes you and the client happy. "Feeling good and money in the bank," my friend!!

Denny ;{

Nikolaus 05 Jul 2009

OK. Makes sense now Allen. I guess that is your "Niche".

Best wishes to you in your ballpoint pen art endeavors.

Allan Barbeau 06 Jul 2009

I'm please to see that you see the point ! :)

Now, as it's a Ballpoint pen Topic and Randy Nore left the post, I will be pleased to continue it for those who whant to know more about ballpoint pen or for those who just want show there Artworks or talk about it !

;)

Peter Williams 06 Jul 2009

Allan I've asked this question before and I'm sure the answer is in this topic somewhere but been overwhelmed. So I'll ask again. I would be worried about the archival quality of the inks used in ordinary ballpoint pens. What I mean is I know people who have created art using the usual 'office' quality pens which has definately either faded away or changed colour dramatically in a short space of time when exposed to normal daylight conditions (hung on a wall) Can you tell me please, are there archival quality pens to choose from and if so can you recommend a brand for me to try. I have looked on the Jerry Stith Website where dozens of brands are listed but with little or no information about the archival qualities. (I may have missed it as there is just too much stuff to read through thoroughly) So just a short answer please....are there archival quality pens, if so can you recommend a brand to me. Thanks in advance.

Allan Barbeau 06 Jul 2009

Like vampires, it's true that the sun and Ballpoint pen are worst enemies ! That known, you just have to protect it like you protect a painting from humidity and choose ingeniously witch wall don't get direct sunlight ! I have to test an UV protector spray but never fond the time to do it ! But I'm not old enough to say that in 100 years time, my work will still be there in the same quality !

The short answer for you Peter is that I use the everyday ballpoint pen. No special quality pens and that true, the colors fade away in direct sun light ! But I don't know every pen over the world ! Maybe there are some pens somewhere with special quality !!

Or maybe not and the kid of my kid will never see my very first ballpoint pen drawing :(

;)

Peter Williams 06 Jul 2009

Thanks Allan. I'm not talking direct sunlight here, I mean that what I have seen was hanging on an office wall, no direct natural light. Everything I create is for sale or at least for display and if/when I try out a ballpoint pen piece and get asked this same question, I would like to be able to reply with true honesty that they will last for generations if treated sensibly (my giclee prints come with that guarantee, 75 years minimum and I have documentation from printers to back it up) It seems to me that the level of 'sensibility' regarding hanging these ballpoint artworks would be much more strict .e. no light at all. I guess UV filtering glass is the answer which can screen 97% ultra violet rays out. Only thing is I more often than not sell work unframed, so it would be up to the customer to frame to conservation standard and I would feel responsible to tell them so. This may put people off, I don't know. I'm just getting my head around how I would deal with this issue if I produce anything worthwhile with BP. Thanks for your help.

Allan Barbeau 06 Jul 2009

The few people counted as my ballpoint pen costumers bought the picture with the indication that they have to protect it from the sun under a UV glass and that the technique is to knew to know if it can stand for a very long time.

People spent fortune on plasma TV or latest technology cause it's the last one or it's the latest fashion. Dos it mean that the TV gonna stay for generation ? I think that, if the picture can't stand for dozen years (what I don't know yet), people buy it for is originality. To get a picture done by this dud after 200 hours of little lines criss crossed over a board to arrive to an incredible result !

But if a costumer ask me a portrait who gonna stand for generation, of course, I will play the security and advise a painting.

;)

06 Jul 2009

Peter Williams 06 Jul 2009

That's fair enough Allan. It just seems a shame for your brilliant works of art to only have a limited life span, a bit like an ice sculpture or sand sculpture, it breaks your heart when they are washed away. I'm perhaps over sensitive on this issue. I once bought a print as a souvenir on a trip to Cornwall. It was an image of a rock face I climbed, nicely framed it was hung with pride on my dining room wall. About 1 year later it had all but disappeared and what was left had all turned green and red only. The artist had obviously just printed it off on his printer at home using ordinary paper and ink. So, although not a lot of money, I still felt cheated and now don't have a souvenir from that trip. I found the guy on the internet and mailed him to express my disappointment. He replied that the money I paid him didn't last long either! That made me smile but since then I try not to disappoint any of my customers.