Frank Mayes 04 Dec 2013

I see a lot of ...what I call "hobby" art... efined as the little old lady that goes to painting class at "Hobby Lobby.... and then joins an art league and puts the "paintings" in one of their shows.

You take it for what it is... and go on.

My real problem is with "professional" artist.... and I use that strictly as a generic term.... Most of them I see have not mastered the basic tools of the trade......i.e. they can't draw...

And youcan tell... by looking at the work presented.

Frank Mayes 04 Dec 2013

I see a lot of ...what I call "hobby" art... efined as the little old lady that goes to painting class at "Hobby Lobby.... and then joins an art league and puts the "paintings" in one of their shows.

You take it for what it is... and go on.

My real problem is with "professional" artist.... and I use that strictly as a generic term.... Most of them I see have not mastered the basic tools of the trade......i.e. they can't draw...

And youcan tell... by looking at the work presented.

Vincent von Frese 09 Dec 2013

I wonder why people seem "afraid" to speak out about crappy movies and art.

It's not a "negative" thing to comment about poor art is it?

Yury Yanin 10 Dec 2013

I see that discussions here are not active in general. I am not sure weather it is bad or good.

rosemary gioielli 11 Dec 2013

I don't think there's anything wrong with "hobby art " . If a little old lady does this more power to her. As far as professional artists, there are tons of them. They have worked hard to gain the level of skills they have achieved. These professionals are established, known, and command high prices for their work, and get it. If some wishy washy artist struggles to sell their paintings, and sells them, that's great . Someone found joy or value in their work, that's not a bad thing. It's all subjective anyway. Yes, there are principles and techniques to be learned, and I know what you mean, and yes there is value. In the long run why be offended if someone sells a piece of work not up to your standards ? It takes nothing away from you.

rosemary gioielli 11 Dec 2013

In line with this thread, I'd like to add that photo realism can be quite boring and is not unique, many people do it. Yes, it is an achievement and it is what it is. Artists use tracing methods and project images to create this style of work. (yes I know other artists do this too) Once you get past the "wow, looks like a photo" reaction , there you have it. If someone wants the look of a photo, they can always use a camera. If you don't think professional artists exist , what ? check out young current professional artist Donato Giancola, for example. I wouldn't mind getting 35 grand for a painting that I did for fun, would you?

Yury Yanin 12 Dec 2013

Rosemary, I can not agree that visual art, which you call "photographic realism" is always boring. May be there is no much contradiction in our attitudes though. As I see that, actually you wrote negatively not about ART, but about brainless copying of real objects by different methods (with photo camera or without it). Elaborative exact technical schemes of real objects may look boring, but they may have other value as historic documents, they can be used for scientific research, for reproduction or manufacture, etc.I think that such purely technical copying may be a craft, but not ART. ANY ART (realistic or other) begins somewhere higher over the level of reality, where an artist shows to a viewer not real objects only, but something else, may be more important and emotional. Buying any ART as ART, people buy their own thoughts, emotions, their own pleasure which they have, when looking at ART. Any ART can be boring for a viewer, who fails to see in it a beauty, a surprise, a problem or tragedy, or anything else, but usual objects of a boring routine life or just paints and brush strokes on some surface. Even the most talented ART becomes ART in the eyes of a talented viewer only.

rosemary gioielli 14 Dec 2013

Well said Yury, but it is my understanding that visual art and photo realism are two different things . Where as photorealism is visual art, all visual art is not photorealism.Visual art refers to many styles from abstract to realism to photo realism, photographs, sculptures, etc. Realism and photo-realism are different . Photo realism may include technical medical illustrations, or an exact replica of the tea pot on your stove. My meaning in that statement was not that there was no value in photorealism, of course there is, but that there isn't much of the artist in it. By the same token, I love realism in paintings. Just not photorealism. But you know, that's just my opinion.

Yury Yanin 15 Dec 2013

Rosemary, now I am beginning to suspect that there is NO differences in our opinions at all, only some misunderstanding, caused by my bad English and absence of proper art education. All my art education stopped in my early childhood, when I liked to draw and paint, had a genial teacher, but decided (very primitively) to devote all my future life to a more masculine applications - sports, military service, etc. May be due to that, now I just fail to detect surely a clear border line between realism and photo realism... Once in that period of my early childhood, parents of another boy brought to my teacher amazing drawings of their talented child. I was impressed - they were excellent and looked as drawings of an adult artist! It was a surprise for me, when my teacher said that first of all parents should prohibit their son to use simplifies methods of copying if they wanted him to become an artist. He had understood that the boy used so called "method of a square net". He explained that first the boy should master his painting free hand skill to the level of realism, and only on this much higher level of skills, he may try to copy famous paintings, which is still a rather dangerous exercise for a young artist, who looks for his own way and style in ART. Only an adult artist with high level of skills, his own style and attitudes to artwork, is free to choose weather to create realistic or non realistic ART as he wants it, in his own way, or to earn money by simplified tricks, producing any artwork in any fashionable style... Now imagine - since my childhood I have not mastered my skills in drawing and painting. Neither I tried to make real artistic photography. As a role I took a camera to my hunting trips when on vocation, but complicated, professional cameras could not endure the circumstances, so I used the most reliable, but very bad, primitive cameras. And I operated them as a true ignorant amateur - just pointed and clicked to reflect something documentary like. The results were usual and predictable - mostly they were my ugly face with different trophies - from duck to bears... and all that hardly detectable on bad quality B&W photos. Certainly it was not ART at all. However, all that time I sow beauty of this world, deserving to be reflected in ART, wanted to show that as an artist, but had no time, skill and equipment for it, and also didn't want to spend my time for it, preferring to live, not to show life.... and NOW WHAT? On the current stage of my life I feel again a strong need to create and show ART, reflecting my feelings, thoughts, my life; but how can I do it? Once I found out that I have only one very bad photo of my wife, made before we were married!!! Thanks to digital technologies I made quite a number of digital images, based on that old photo. Some of them look as drawings, others - as paintings or otherwise. The recent variant you can see in my AW portfolio... I like it as far and do not feel ashamed to show it to public. Is it a photo realism? Or just tricks with photo manipulation, allowing me to pretend to be an artist? Be sure, I respect any person, who has mastered the highest possible skills in any craft or ART. However, I am not ashamed of myself too. I am a grown up boy now. I do not pretend to be a great painter, do not want to deceive anybody about the nature and methods of my art... I am what I am. And I want to create ART now. That is why I do not feel ashamed to use any method of artwork, available for me. The main thing for me is not the method, but the result... I do what i can do in ART, and I like doing it. If it is the photo realism, which is boring for you... I am sorry, but let it be called so... It is also my opinion only and only one of my ways in ART...

Yury Yanin 15 Dec 2013

Addition: the recent resulted image.

Yury Yanin 15 Dec 2013

Vincent, and a bit more about my bad education... the picture, which I saw in the Russian museum in my childhood and mentioned here above was not by Suricov, but by Vereschagin. Probably it was a preliminary painting for his later bigger and more famous picture "Apotheosis of war", which is now being exhibited in Tretjakov Gallery in Moscow. Interesting is also a full tittle of that larger picture. He tittled that "Apotheosis of war. (to all great warriors of the past, present and future)".

Vincent von Frese 15 Dec 2013

Either way good, bad or ugly great art in the 21st century remains illusive.

rosemary gioielli 15 Dec 2013

Hi Yury, you are right, sometimes we mean the same things , but misunderstand because of wording. So, I don't understand about the photo of your wife. Is this a painting ? Is it a edited photograph ?I would call it realism, but not photo realism, because of the blouse. Whatever it is , I wouldn't say it's boring at all. It's lovely. We all have the right to express ourselves however we want, good , bad whatever. That's not what I mean at all. I was a self taught artist for a long time. You have to struggle and everything is trial and error. The benefit of education is you can move forward so much faster. I didn't understand some basic principles. I got frustrated. Still, I plugged along. I loved it anyway. I'm not a professional, and a lot of my stuff stinks. So ? I would fall in love with my paintings while I was doing them, thought they were finished, and later realize how unfinished and poorly done they were. But still could see a bit of good in some of them. As far as I'm concerned , you are a darn good artist .

rosemary gioielli 15 Dec 2013

Ok, I see now that it is an edited photo. I'm glad that you enhanced it that way, leaving part of it to look hand rendered. Takes an artists eye to enhance a photo that way :)She is very pretty.

Yury Yanin 16 Dec 2013

Rosemary, now I am sure that we both have very similar thoughts and fates.

As for the image... I have a software called MyPaint. You and everybody may try it - it is a free download. It provides a good imitation of traditional tools ( pencils, brushes, etc.) on digital paintings. From time to time I also use PaintNET and GIMP software (both free downloads too) -they can provide some interesting effects. I also have Adobe Photoshop CS with additional plug ins (Redfield Fractalius, Topaz plug ins, etc.), and a graphic tablet Genius. Using all that or other graphic software and a tablet, you can make traditional style free hand images digitally, exactly as you make usual drawings and paintings, or improve any ready image as you like. I worked with that old photo with different software in different styles and variants and enjoyed that creative job as you enjoy your painting. Currently I like the shown variant most of all. It is made mostly in Photoshop, with little editions in MyPaint.

A traditional painter may say that it is just a trick, photo manipulation, photo realism or something... I can understand his reasons if he has mastered his painting skills with traditional tools for all his life and deserves to be proud with the level of his achievements. His elaborative ability to paint talented pictures may be much more valuable then my craft and deserves more respect. However I am what I am, and I do what I can.

ART is not a mere craft, ART is a miracle. No one knows for sure why some brush strokes can transmit feelings from an artist to a viewer, but they can sometimes. Digital images can have the same ability too. Be sure I had a lot of feelings, when working over that image again and again, and I was pleased to have one more image of my young wife. If anyone also likes to look at that portrait and feels something pleasant inside his soul, it is ART.

That's what I mean, when I say that the result is more important for me then the process now.

Thanks for your compliments too. I am not sure that I deserve them - my attitude to my own artwork is rather sceptical. I enjoy creating something, but I am not sure that everybody else must enjoy my ART too. Joy is not a compulsory feeling, I can not order others to enjoy themselves with my art or buy their joy somewhere for everyone...

Vincent, I am already too talkative here - the only thing, which can make a man to be so talkative is a beautiful woman, ready to listen... (it is from some book)... it is a joyke with a great part of truth in it... If a bit more seriously, I can say too much about the illusive nature of visual art too, but it can be a great leap aside from the main topic of this thread. Are you sure, that I shouls start?

Yury Yanin 16 Dec 2013

Vincent, as for the leap aside... while you think over it... one more picture for your entertainment. I could title this "A broken toy" or "I am not guilty".

Vincent von Frese 23 Dec 2013

In "Sign of The Times" magazine..a trade mag for the sign industry, there was occasionally a section reserved for "ugly signs".

In this there were photos of really stupid and plain ugly signs. As an example some signs hanging off a building which were pallets with a poor and sloppy attempt to letter the name of the business on them.

The reason the trade mag puts these in is to have a laugh at people who have no respect for graphic arts and think their home made "sign" will actually work.

Vincent von Frese 25 Dec 2013

In the dictionary ugly is defined as something unpleasant and repulsive. But these are opinions aren't they? Art is more than an opinion...it's a statement of how you feel about stuff.

This means that people full of negative energy as so many are are not capable of seeing beauty anyway weather it be art ore real life or both. To be an artist it helps to work at staying strong and positive rather than weak and negative in the way you live and work.

Everybody have a Merry Christmas and a Hippo Gnu Year Roo!

Marty Yokawonis 01 Jan 2014

We have tv shows that pit accomplished singers against one another in an effort to get recognition. there's no question that these people are talented and pretty good most of the time but when we compare them against others of equal ability some are just better than others. It's difficult to judge the quality of art unless you have a whole body of one artist's work to judge it against. On a site like FAA they aren't judging or jurying anybody's work. Just like this site. as long as you open an account and submit three images you have a "portfolio." Many time these works are subjected to going through a grading system unless you change your members preferences. Same thing with comments. I have noticed that commenting isn't done as much anymore on images that get uploaded. I turned off the grading system years ago because it bugged me to have my images sorted by other peoples opinions of good or bad. That's just me. My AW portfolio is a great online place to store chronological images. I get to see my own state of progression work wise. I don't want it gummed up with other people's numbering or opinions. So I guess i would say that I am mostly indifferent to the idea of good or bad ugly or not when it comes to images I want to see a person's progression in time based on looking at several works. I think we make a mistake trying to come up with a critique by looking at only one piece which is like only part of a performance. Show me a whole year of pieces and I can see what your work is worthy of.

afer sulaj 01 Jan 2014

Art has its beauty. It depends on the viewer.