sher richardson 27 Jan 2005

Hello...

Francis is probably one of the best water colourists on this site. His portfolio impressive and his list of clientele even more impressive... As well as his education. Outstanding human being and artist....Personally he is a benchmark for a standard in the medium...

Personally, as in the thread below, i just stated yesterday, hes a pure 10 in my eyes... : )

His work, is not hallway art by any means...

I think hes such a golden hearted fellow, he really doesnt pay attention to the ratings or the whys of the numbers...he just loves to produce his art... : )

Corinne Quereau 27 Jan 2005

Sher:

Yes, I read that thread and totally agree. Your points were quite valid. It can be frustrating to have someone throw an arbitrary bad number into your ratings.

However, I can't agree that everyone must rate a 10 for a work that is merely technically perfect. Personally, I rarely give a 10 when rating (we are human, after all; nothing is perfect.). I reserve 10's for work that, in my estimation, is nearly perfect in technique *and* strikes me on a purely personal, undefinable level.

(As to the hallway remark, I think you misunderstood. I did not mean to imply that this was work that belongs over one's sofa. What I meant was, although I can see the beauty in this work, it is not something that moves me, and not something that I would choose to live with as I have chosen to live with other beautiful things that I love.)

So, back to the point. Art is so subjective. How can we expect even the best artists to consistently receive 10's when everyone's opinion of what constitues a 10 (or a 9, 8, 7, etc.) varies widely? And should someone (okay, me) be criticized for their rating, as long as it is done in good faith with good intentions?

sher richardson 27 Jan 2005

Corinne... hello : )

I can't answer the question. Each of us rate so differently here, that i just give 10's to those who move me and the work is the best theyve done or unique or even a risky work in a new direction... i dont rate anything usually anymore that would be lower. I don't have the time to comment on 200 + works everyday...so i do skip over some work...

The ratings are hard when youre faced with a guideline given by AW. I just wanted to comment on Francis's work because he astounds me. And i use his work as a measuring tool for other watercolourists..

I think the writer of your email had good intentions... we all try and protect each other here, just like a family i suppose... hope this helps : )

Juan Gomez 27 Jan 2005

Amen Sher..well said..

joan warburton 27 Jan 2005

An amazing artist...

eileen martin 27 Jan 2005

following the AW guild lines just doesn't work, the whole system really doesn't work, i think what the majority do is work thier own way around the system and use the ratings as is most comfortable for them. and yes i think alot of us feel a sense of family here, and therefore defend each other as such, Corrine, i hope you can find a way to use it , and keep true to yourself:)

Misty Benson 27 Jan 2005

I so rarely comment, but since I don't know the person's work, I thought I'd offer what I thought when I read your post from a completely fresh view. I think it was completely rude that someone e-mailed you about the comment and rating you left. I didn't know that you had to take a rating exam to be qualified here. And who is this person to say whether you are qualified or not? If someone e-mailed anyone on my behalf, I'd be pretty upset whether it's positive or negative. That is an absolute no-no when it comes to myself and the majority of the artists I have known online for years. I imagine if Francis is at AW and he is as gifted and established as all of the lovely people here say, then I imagine he is just here to share his work and really isn't concerned about his ratings. I'm sure that the e-mailer will never tell him that you were contacted because they probably know that he possibly might not approve. This kind of interaction, whether he knows about it or not, makes people shy away from his work because they don't want e-mails from someone. Besides, I imagine when you rate you aren't looking up the bio and accessing his customer list before clicking the number. Anyway, I think that e-mail was uncalled for, and if I even responded to that at all it would get a very polite mind-your-own-business-and-stop-making-the-artist-look-like-a-troll e-mail. People want to "protect" the artist or whatnot and try to help them out, but from my personal p.o.v., I prefer speaking for myself. That type of e-mail is harmful to the artist's vibe. Anyway, blah, blah, blah! You get my point;)

Judy Olson 27 Jan 2005

I completely agree with Misty and Corinne.

sher richardson 27 Jan 2005

Hello Misty...

Francis is a very warm and gentle artist, and he wouldnt be upset that someone adored his work so much that they started a brouhaha...If anything, i hope more artists and art lovers who might read this thread would visit his portfolio to judge for themselves...leave him a smile and a comment...

Manners and Protocol on this site are willy nilly sometimes. And a few times i have overlooked mail that was sent in the heat of the moment...

I just think there should be resolve that passions do flair when you see wonderful artwork that should be spotlighted, crash and brurn with a rating that wipes them out..and thats where the emailer tried to pick up the sword for Francis..

: )

everybody hug and smile ...

RQ Trietsch 27 Jan 2005

Perhaps a 6 or 7 would have really riled the "someone". Nothing like an "HONEST" opinion to piss someone off! Screw-em!

Misty Benson 27 Jan 2005

Hey Sher!

I intentionally didn't look at Francis work before I left the comment because I really wasn't concerned about the rating Corinne left. She is entitled to leave an 8 if she likes. I just don't understand how someone can send an e-mail on someone' else's behalf because it only makes the artist look like he has a posse. I know that Francis didn't ask for that to be said for him. This is more of a reflection on the e-mailer. The e-mail that was sent to Corrine was insulting in that they told Corrine that she wasn' qualified to judge his work, and she left a "lame" comment. If Francis felt that he shouldn't be judged, then I'm sure he would turn the ratings off. I know the e-mail was not sent by him nor does it probably reflect his own thoughts. So this is about the e-mail that was sent, not the artist, but unfortunately these things will reflect poorly on the artist whether it was intended to or not. Some people will see his work and be reminded of this thread or the insulting e-mail. That's unfortunate but it happens. The whole idea whether his art is an 8 or a 10 is moot for me. I didn't come to debate his work, but rather say it's kind of distressing to see how many people e-mail artists here to complain about the rating that they left. It's basically harrassing. I got a 5 one day. Oh well. Maybe it wasn't their cup of tea. I just sympathize that people like Corinne that have to get e-mails about a rating she left when it's just her honest opinion. I looked at Francis work and it is lovely. I don't debate the quality of his work nor his intention. I just know that well-intentioned fans sometimes overstep by trying to speak for an artist. My comment is not a reflection on Francis or his work, only a statement about my annoyance with people that e-mail and inadvertently and unwittingly cause a problem for the artist. I've seen fallout over this a million times in my art community where an e-mail like that is sent, and the person receiving the e-mail will be hurt and often retaliate by being angry at the artist. In this situation, we are fortunate that Corrine is not that type of person.

I hope that makes sense. I don't begrudge Francis or his lovely art. I just think that e-mail was out of line. Good intentioned or not, it's never a good idea to ty to speak for someone else in a sitaution like that.

Pete Miller 27 Jan 2005

I agree that Francis' work is among the best on this site...thats my opinion...

If I was rating it I would surely give it a 10 (that pretty much goes for his whole portfolio) That again is my opinion Which I feel I have the right to...I expect whom ever rates or looks at my work to give me their opinion in the form of comments and much less importantly numerically...

Corinne, You have every right to rate or put your comments on any work on this site.

The part of this that bothers me is what right does the third party have e-mailing you about a rating or a comment? More so why get angry over an 8. as long as you honestly deserved an 8 thats your opinion and if someone posts, they have to expect to get some other ratings besides 10's...

:::::stepping down from my cashew box:::

sher richardson 27 Jan 2005

::waves up above::

You are correct about the line crossing.. i suppose i was trying hard to keep peaceful insights into the cause of the email...

As i've said i have gotten what i consider 'bad' email from a few, and i really just ignore it... i consider it 'just a moment of a lapse of judgement'... Oh and i myself have a couple of emails i wished i had never had sent...that was long ago when i first arrived.. Now i never mail anyone nor really answer 'upsetting' mail...

Sometimes it doesnt take much to fuel a fire from a little spark... : )

Aaron Wisdom 27 Jan 2005

I think it was a little overboard for someone to email you. And don't let that stop you from giving your opinions. I have gotten emails from a few artists for not giving them a high rating, have had other people say they would not rate my art work because I gave someone else a low rating..Oh well, Who needs em ;)

I was pleasently surprised that I did get an email from an artist thanking me for being honest and giving them a 9. (all his other ratings were 10's)

Misty Benson 27 Jan 2005

(((((SHER)))))

I know:) You are awesome, and I know you were just looking for the bright side:)

I just speak from a strange experience of being on both sides of the intention. I just had a client e-mail me asking if I no longer wanted him to bid on my work because he had a fallout with some of my artist friends. They were talking about him online saying that they were upset that he was owning "part of my soul" by buying my work. I had no part in this conversation nor did I know it was even taking place until he found it and e-mailed me. I spent more time trying to put out a fire than I should have had to because they felt that my feelings were theirs. This also happens when fans find someone trampling on my copyright. Sometimes they take it upon themselves to try to e-mail the person when I wish they'd e-mail me and let me take care of it myself. I always thnak them for looking out for me, but I have to ask them to let me know and let me handle it. I agree, the person probably had good intentions. I know I have been guilty myself of overstepping:)

On the other hand, I have received many excellent thank you e-mails from people on this site as well, direct from the artist;) No third party of course!! I appreciate your sunny outlook! »(¯`v´¯)-»

ArtWanted.com Staff 28 Jan 2005

What is this site coming to? People e-mailing other people about their rating habits?

It seems that many people on our site, forget that a bad score would be a rating number under a '5'. Any number above 5 is a positive number and indicates that the person liked your image. It seems we see more and more people complaining about 8's and even 9's recently. These are excellent scores, quit complaining. :-)

This week we visited another site that uses a 1-10 number rating system. The highest average score for any person on that site was a 6.5. Every other person had a average rating lower than this.

We personally think that there are way too many 10s going around on ArtWanted, because a 10 means a flawless image where nothing else could be improved upon. Perhaps this is happening, because people don't want to get black-balled from the other members for giving a 7 or 8.

Let's all remember the rating scale...

1-2 Start Over
3-4 Needs Work
5 Average
6-7 Good
8 Very Good
9 Excellent
10 Perfect

Try and give an honest rating and a helpful comment and it will go a long way. If you get a rating that you don't like, but that it's not below 5, quit complaining about it. It's a complement to your portfolio and although every artist feels that every image deserves a 10, not every person is going to love your artwork.

It seems like some people live and die over their ArtWanted.com score. Let's all lighten up about them. We promise that life will go on, even with a bad rating from an ArtWanted.com member. :-)

Juan Gomez 28 Jan 2005

What the Other site AW??? want to see for my-self..work must be out-standing to get nothing above 6 rating in thier scale...one thing is clear..you have the best in the inter-net..and our band of minnos has developed an interesting respect for one-another up-lifting and encouraging many to create who other-wise would have trouble in the REAL WORLD...Life is harsh especially with cleints and galleries as many of us under-stand..bottom line positive feed-back is always good..in some cases negative can feul the passion to strive and improve...enough said...YOUR THE BEST OUT-THERE!! P. S. agreed the e-mailing bit is a bit extreme..

Corinne Quereau 28 Jan 2005

I just wanted to add something to what Misty has said. She mentioned that she felt that this kind of e-mail might make the artist himself look bad, or might dissuade others from rating his work (whether or not he was involved in the e-mail itself).

But I also want to say that this kind of e-mail could certainly dissuade people from rating *at all*. I always think of rating as adding my two little cents, as a way of helping the AW community as a whole. I never realized that e-mails might be sent to me by an artist who didn't think my rating was high enough (or by an interested third party).

As I said before, I rarely give 10s. In my book, 8s and 9s are high praise. I may be missing something, but I don't quite understand what all the fuss about perfect 10s is, anyway. I guess you get a bit more exposure (and that Top Ten trophy thing which, I confess, I've always thought to be a bit silly). But is there some other benefit I don't know about? I generally just use the ratings as a guide to see which illustrations are working this month, which are not, and which should go onto my website and into my portfolio next.

I know it's just an e-mail, and can be easily ignored and deleted but, really, who needs the hassle? Frankly, I'll think twice before I rate another artist's work again.

RQ Trietsch 28 Jan 2005

I couldn't agree with you more AW!

David Díez 28 Jan 2005

I also agree greatly with AW... sad to have to remember which is obvious.