Ric Strange 10 Jan 2005

Good question - your painting the edges doesn't allow you to flatten them out after off the stretcher frames . I would leave the edges puckered as you put it just as it came off the frame and roll the whole thing very loosely puckered edges and all - loose enough so as not to flatten or further crimp the puckers much beyond their shape comming off the frame . That will mean big rolls each -1 1/2 ft in diameter after rolled or so (on a 4 footer) . I personally can't think of another way - too tight and the painted surface will possibly crack when flattened and have to be repaired when restretching . Cutting them off - then you lose some of the painting when re-stretching -which I've done and seen done many times , but the ones I did it with , later I wished I hadn't because it affected the overall composistion I had achieved , I had painted it be like it was originally not how it looked cut down - if that makes sense to you . I would very carefully roll them very loosely and tape or tie them at both ends . Thats my opinion anyway , maybe someone out there with more schooling might have a better idea , I can't think of one and have dealt with the same thing more than once . (and yes ,isn't it fun to restetch and get the precise tension all around while keeping the edges lined up !! What fun! Hahaha!)

Sal Buchanan 10 Jan 2005

Thanks Ric, I know exactly what you mean, but I have them very loosely rolled now, and find that when I pick the roll up to move it, because it's so loose, it tends to squash easily in the middle, flatten the roll if you know what I mean. You are so right about the paint cracking though, too tight would cause this, as a lot of my paintings are quite thick with paint.

I thought if I cut, not into the picture, just outside it so as not to loose any of the picture, a frame would overlap the canvas at the edges and cover where I have cut. I don't know too much about proper finished framing so I'm only guessing.

Maybe someone who is a professional framer could help us both here. In what condition should a canvas 'off the frame' be in when it is taken to a professional framers?

If I had for instance, a huge, one and a half foot post pak style cardboard tube, this would give me the width, as you said to wrap the paintings around without the paint cracking. I could wrap heaps of paintings around this tube tightly only if there was no corner puckering.

I wouldn't want to be a removalist carrying it though, but carpet is heavy and they seam to manage that alright.

Where could I get a large sturdy cardboard or plastic tube I wonder.

Hey Ric, I can't wait to find out an answer to this, I'm feeling creative and am ripping the canvases off 3 frames as we speak, and the canvases are lying flat on my bed at the moment...it's 10.30am here in Australia, I'll keep checking here to see if anyone has an answer, or it looks like I'll be sleeping on the sofa, while my loose canvases hog the bed. LOL

Ric Strange 10 Jan 2005

Yea , your right on them wanting to sag and bend when your dealing with large canvas's and a lot of paint. I never have mine off very long , but I know just what your saying .(Most of ones I take off are destined for the trash so I don't care if they go flat after rolled ) But I still wouldn't cut any off - I'd rather repair them after re-stretched than lose exactly what I have going on that I'm pleased with at the original size , personally , unless they were so bad on the edges I had to cut them down . I dislike painting the edges - so novelty , but your right most galleries like that on contemporary work with thicker frame stock. Yea , someone thats skilled in framing will have to tell us both whats required when bringing something unstretched in to be stretched and framed - how much is actually required . I know I've stretched with very very little to get ahold of and had to just pull rather than lever it tight - squeaky tight and prone to rip easily when doing it - so I'd think they'd need at least an inch or so after it rounds the back edge of the frame stock . Good luck on the sleeping situation - haha!- (maybe some pillow batting - light fluffy kind for the inside of the big rolls ?? and I would roll them individually, be more to move but I'd feel better knowing all the weight would'nt be rubbing off paint at every bump in the road etc.)-call UPS they might have tubes or something on that order - I guess they have UPS down under ......

Dawn Schmidt 10 Jan 2005

If you have a material (sewing)store nearby, you could ask for the cardboard rolls/tubes that drapery fabrics come on, they would be large, but not as cumbersome as carpet tubes.

If you want to roll more than one on a tube, just put soft cloth, like a large towel or blanket between them. That's how I transport canvases to shows...One painting down, half the length of a large towel, next painting, fold the towel over the painting, and so on, adding towels as necessary.

Good luck!

Sal Buchanan 10 Jan 2005

Thanks Rick, I don't know what UPS is but I might try some big plumbing suppliers or something like that. I agree with you Dawn about towels in between but that's going to make the whole roll a hell of a lot heavier if I put about three or four to a roll. I was thinking of that really flat bubble wrap but would the plastic melt all over the painting with the compression and heat. The paintings could be rolled up for years and there are too many of them to roll up seperately, my wardrobe no longer has clothes in it, just rolled up loose individual canvases, they are already starting to sag :-( Dawn, they have those fabric rolls where I work, but they are too small, the paint would crack for sure when being rolled that tight, I already tried it. I wonder how other painters actually store large canvases, poor painters that is.

Ric Strange 10 Jan 2005

Hahahaha! join the club ! At your new place I'd find a spot to lay them out flat and store them like that (after your there) , I don't think much of leaving them rolled ,even loosely, for very long like in storage, sometimes if they aren't cured totally , they go ahead and cure on out rolled and become brittle, and when unrolled they have a tendency to crack in the heavier areas - Best of luck to ya Sal - (One good thing - abstracts are much more forgiving than tightly painted smooth representational work when handled - much more ..)(UPS is a delivery place - brown trucks etc . guys and gals in shorts zipping everywhere dropping off packages ... I figured you'd have them in Australia , they claim to ship anywhere - dirt roads in China etc .Hahaha!)

Gordon Szczubelek 10 Jan 2005

Hi Sal, Dawn is on the right track with the sewwing store. Also try your local art galleries and framers or lumber yard.

Maybe your local lumber yard would sell a large plastic barrel that you could store a number of loosely rolled canvases.

I have stretched and unstretched my own canvases over the years and have also been a custom framer. I recently just had to unstretch 3, 5x5 foot canvases because we moved into a smaller home. I used a cardboard tube and then wrapped the ends with 5" width roll of shrink wrap.

You can buy the shrink wrap at a hardware or lumber yard. It has a dispensing handle for easy distribution.

As far as leaving a canvas edge for a framer to restretch....you need to leave 2 inches minimum. Restretching someone elses canvas is the ultimate framers' nightmare. Hope this helps.

Sal Buchanan 10 Jan 2005

Thankyou Gordon, Yes you've been a wonderful help. There's no way I'm going to cut them now, lucky I couldn't find the scissors earlier (hehe) I think I'll do what Ric said and lie them flat when I get there, but I may not have my own place for a few months after I get there. Gordon, how long did you have your 5ft paintings rolled up for, were they tight in individual tubes with the gladwrap thing at the ends?

Sal Buchanan 10 Jan 2005

Hey Ric, I have to move a kiln and an architects metal draw cabinet and a really old wrought iron press for woodcuts as well, hahaha! so I'm getting a proper removalists (if I can)to do the whole lot, I think it will be cheaper in the long run. At least the kiln is a modern one, not one of those old heavies.

Ric Strange 10 Jan 2005

yea my mother used to have one of those "old heavies" kiln wise - but it sounds like you have your hands full for a few weeks regardless . Best of luck to ya!

Sal Buchanan 10 Jan 2005

Thanks Ric, I've got a few months yet to worry about the moving, so I'm just about to start a couple of new paintings at the moment since I'm on holiday from work. Thanks for everyones help, at least I Know not to cut the excess canvas off, and be on the look out for tubes.

Gordon Szczubelek 10 Jan 2005

Sal, I just rolled them up in October. I rolled them individually and somewhat tight. They made up a triptych and it was sad to have to roll them. They have been stretched since 1990 and I skimped on the stretcher frame at the time which caused some shrinkage in the canvas. If I ever do restretch they will probably be 56" x 56", LOL.

This is the middle painting of the three.

Ric Strange 10 Jan 2005

heres some inspirational words beings it sounds like you have the passion going on as we speak . "Is it not emotion, the sincerity of one's feeling for nature, that draws us, and if the emotions are sometimes so strong that one works without knowing one works, when sometimes the strokes come with a continuity and a coherence like words in a speech or letter..." Vincent 1885// Have fun creating !

Ric Strange 10 Jan 2005

Nice interplay of palette in that piece Gordon , ^ - so it'd be almost 15' long all together - cool ///(has somewhat of a Peter Max read to it with a Maxfield Parish palette ... to me anyway haha!)Thanks for showing it.

Sal Buchanan 11 Jan 2005

Inspirational words indeed Ric, I love Vincent, funny you picked him because he has been an inspiration to me so much in the past, maybe because he is so emotional and I can relate to that. haha!

Gordon...what an inspirational painting, it's bueatiful. I've just been and visited your portfolio and thought that all your paintings were all photo realism, which are done superbly I might add. I love this aspect of your style Gordon, why isn't this in your portfolio? I think it's fantastico!! I'll have to go back there now, I may have missed something.

Good news about it being wrapped up from October and still O.K. The ones I'm wrapping are about 1yr old now, I think they will be dry enough, or cured, as Ric put it.

Sal Buchanan 11 Jan 2005

I think I must stretch my canvases pretty tight because when I had to put that one I mentioned earlier back on it's frame, I did manage to get it on by hand. I don't actually use a stretcher, I just dampen the canvas, lie it on the floor and use my feet for leaverage..(haha!) I've learnt to do this alone out of necessity and so far, no problems. Haven't hammered my thump once!

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