46 Comments (Page 2)

Vincent von Frese 12 Mar 2013

There's no poor art of course...or just poor artists maybe? There's no answer to that because art is what it is and it's indifferent to people's reaction to it.

I'm not an expert or an authority on art but I have visited some major art museums who's collections contain examples of art from some of the oldest to some of the most contemporary art.

The curators who organize what's to be show in the museums I've noticed tend to try to follow a comprehensive historical time line for their exhibits and they choose but a few samples from a huge amassment of art in their collections based upon geography and periods in art history to display. In some cases they borrow examples from other museums or private collections as was the case when I witnessed the setting up of a van Gogh

In the contemporary collections of modern art the few works chosen tend to be samples from artists who have demonstrated an ability to achieve popularity in the art world over time but the work shown may or may not be the most significant or recognizable(Warhol, Pearlstein, Pollock). The same goes for art of the past however in those collections(European, Chinese, Egyptian, Tantric) many works in the museum have been produced anonymous unknown artists.

Some of the most contemporary art I've seen on display tends to have less of a subjective message and more of a conceptual opportunity for people. And it's often not communicating anything intentional. In other words the work in whatever form has a compelling existence sort of like a philosophy book or musical tune does as it manipulates the senses of viewers. On that though even the older subjective art works have that ability too.

One thing I've learned is that it's not important weather anyone likes the art or not to the creator of the art ....who accepts what fate befalls him or her since the art was never created for the purpose of showing it in museums and galleries but rather in some private and personal reason.

Cole McLester 13 Mar 2013

Art may be created for personal reasons. I know I select subjects that move me or prortray something moves through me. While all of that is true, it is also important to have the art seen by people who like, dislike or are indifferent to it. All art has something to say and benifits with an audience.

Marty Yokawonis 16 Mar 2013

Artwork displayed in museums is almost always done from a strictly academic point of view based on the relevance of that work to the artistic historical timeline assigned it. In other words academicians have looked at the art that represents most strongly a time period in history, a movement in artistic expression, a school or collective means of expression etc. Individual artists then become important based on their either departing from that historical norm or adhering to it or actually birthing the movement aka cubism (for example) which was an early movement (pre modern) created or birthed by Pablo Picasso and George Braques and had supporters such as Juan Gris. Museums don't usually promote an art movement or artist they usually reflect on what is already being established through culture and society.

Poor art is somewhat harder to define because it it like the story in the bible of Tares and Wheat. both grow up alongside the other and until the time of reaping cannot necessarily be told apart. Wheat has value, Tares are worthless.

It has been shown that even unschooled insane folk have the innate capacity for self expression in a visual art sense: it has been dubbed Art Brut. In the most basic sense any man woman or child can create if given any sort of material or tool and if creatively inspired it will be raised to the level of an object of art but whether that thing created will have a lasting enduring societal effect of being a culturally significant artifact is always uncertain.

Vincent von Frese 14 Apr 2013

Seems to be too expensive for many to enter the realm of fine art(which takes an enormous investment of time and materials) and much easier than ever before to get accepted for art which is cheaply as well as quickly made and without much substance.

Yesterdays fine art may have been replaced by crafty non-artist made handicraft art. Using the word "non artist" may seem a bit snobby or elite but it has some merit to it when one thinks about it. At least I think so. I'm always discarding stuff I love to make because I can see it is not fine art but rather the self amusing indulgence of a habitual doodler, a poet of physical objects, if you will.

"Conceptual" art is a bore to me as simple works which demand little to no thinking but great emotional feeling is what my direction of thought feels at home with. I sort of dislike "intellectual" anything let alone art. Much "academic" art trends lately leave me mentally cold.

Here's a painting on the plane I'm saying about by Tom Benton of Missouri.

Vincent von Frese 15 Apr 2013

Poor man's art is that which he can afford. It reflects his interests subjectively. That's why cheap prints are for him. Expensive fine art is not for the poor. Even people of modest means cannot afford to buy original art in modern times. Only corporate entities, government and wealthy individuals seem to be buying original fine art... which has a nominal value like jewelry.

Cole McLester 15 Apr 2013

When I look at myself I see a man. When I look beyond myself I see an artist.

Rene Saucedo 16 Apr 2013

Yes, art is subjective. I feel I've been subjected to a lot of poor art. However, sometimes it's poor because it's too derivative. I've seen dozens of 3d artists here use a bunch of premade Poser (the 3d program) characters, throw in some premade props, and call it their own.

They've actually inspired me. Like when some one steps in a hole, and I avoid it. To the unexperienced eye, they may be fantastic, and draw lots of comments, but it hurts the art form.

Many won't even consider 3d an artform, but I do. I still like "traditional" art, but in the future, 3d works will be part of augment reality. We will see art everywhere we go, we will change our surroundings. I even wrote a book about it. Viva subjectivism!

Vincent von Frese 20 Apr 2013

What judgement is made in summary of a work of art is the decision of the viewer only. You decide!

Vincent von Frese 22 Apr 2013

I was not going to say a thing. I have held this back way too long. Primary colors by themselves are not art! You artists who splash the primary colors in duo tone or solid are failing to make any real art at all!

I suppose it's OK by you because the naive will be your customer. Those colors are the traditional colors of indigenous peoples of South America, Mexico, Peru, Africa and Northern Europe. These colors together do made by American artists are not art but rather exploitation of the primary cultures of the world by suburban consumer capitalists of the western world. It may be art in America but it is not art to the rest of the world!

Cole McLester 23 Apr 2013

Real art?.....hummmm, I'm not sure what "real art" is. I do believe that art with primary colors has it's place in the world of art. I have noticed that what can be done with primary colors is limited and after a while becomes somewhat repetative and shallow (this comming form someone who has used primary colors in art). I can also say that I think it is important in artistic growth for those who use primary colors to explore other means. At the same time, any artist who has never used primary colors should explore that as a means to their growth.

Vincent von Frese 25 Apr 2013

I can agree with this that colors are really too often miss-understood by painters and therefore their work gets sublimely degraded when people figure it out. Never should color be attempted as a cover for value which can only be learned in black & white.

Vincent von Frese 25 Apr 2013

I can agree with this that colors are really too often miss-understood by painters and therefore their work gets sublimely degraded when people figure it out. Never should color be attempted as a cover for value which can only be learned in black & white.

Vincent von Frese 25 Apr 2013

I can agree with this that colors are really too often miss-understood by painters and therefore their work gets sublimely degraded when people figure it out. Never should color be attempted as a cover for value which can only be learned in black & white.

Cole McLester 25 Apr 2013

Funny you should say that I am planning on my next painting being in black and white.

Dan Ault 26 Apr 2013

How did you come up with these three critera?

A. the concept(creative idea)

B. the fabrication(the physical involvement with material)

C. the sharing of it with others including the public

I started a few threads a couple of years ago where I stated the same criteria for determining whether something was or wasn't a work of art. It made a lot of people very uncomfortable, and I got a lot of arguments against the idea that art could or should be defined. Suprisingly to me, the third part of this statement was the most controversial. Many argued that an artist need not show their work. I believe this is the most important aspect as it is the part that gets the viewer involved in the process. Art is concieved in the initial idea, but the presentation is the final delivery in the birthing process of a work of art.

Vincent von Frese 26 Apr 2013

Thanks Dan; I simply conclude this after years of studying art history. We have no art if it is not proclaimed as such I think.

This is why an artist is a part of society and culture....a reflection of it. If in fact a human culture exists at all as the early cave dwelling peoples there is among them expressions of an art and a craft with weapon arrow point carving(craft) or spears and then the picture stories of hunting animals.

I think we as artists need to reflect our culture and environment in art and then create a conversation about it by showing, sharing and telling about it. This contrasts with siting in isolation, making art, and leaving it for others to sort out(don't count on it) at death.

Cole McLester 26 Apr 2013

finaly some lively conversation around here. It's been too long. Thank you.

Vincent von Frese 27 Apr 2013

What you pointed out Dan: "presentation is the final process" is where most artists find themselves stopped in their tracks and unable to go forward.

One reason is the high expense of presentation and the other is the know how to show it with finesse.

Like the frame of a picture or the pedestal under a sculpture....and the space it is being shown. The lighting and the atmosphere can change the value of the work.

Also I think the destination of the work of art has an effect upon the artist's career itself. If the work is purchased by a museum or a patron who displays this art in an appealing manner is enhances a career. If it's stored in a warehouse too long or a dusty attic it has been degraded too. If it is improperly cared for in any way it is degraded. Some well known art is rated by the stature and prominence of the owner as well. And if you give your art away to friends and family it may suffer as compared to what happens to the art when it is purchased by someone who has paid a respectable price for it. Although i've seen some nice art sitting lonely and unloved in a discount thrift charity store for $3.00.50 it would be sad to see my work ending up there.

Even when poor or confusing art is shown in a great display it's more valuable than some very good and well done art shown in a degrading display.

Vincent von Frese 27 Apr 2013

What you pointed out Dan: "presentation is the final process" is where most artists find themselves stopped in their tracks and unable to go forward.

One reason is the high expense of presentation and the other is the know how to show it with finesse.

Like the frame of a picture or the pedestal under a sculpture....and the space it is being shown. The lighting and the atmosphere can change the value of the work.

Also I think the destination of the work of art has an effect upon the artist's career itself. If the work is purchased by a museum or a patron who displays this art in an appealing manner is enhances a career. If it's stored in a warehouse too long or a dusty attic it has been degraded too. If it is improperly cared for in any way it is degraded. Some well known art is rated by the stature and prominence of the owner as well. And if you give your art away to friends and family it may suffer as compared to what happens to the art when it is purchased by someone who has paid a respectable price for it. Although i've seen some nice art sitting lonely and unloved in a discount thrift charity store for $3.00.50 it would be sad to see my work ending up there.

Even when poor or confusing art is shown in a great display it's more valuable than some very good and well done art shown in a degrading display.

Dan Ault 28 Apr 2013

None of the tree criteria mentioned above have anything to do with the evaluation of a work of art. That is a whole other process.

However, the evaluation cannot happen without some sort of presentation. The evaluation involves the viewer.

The audience cannot decide whether or not they are experiencing a work of art. Only the artist can define art.

With the presentation the artist communicates, and the viewer responds.