Vincent von Frese 10 Feb 2013

I'm speaking of signs, not fine art.

In the sign business(in which I have been involved with off and on for many years) there is a trade magazine known as "Sign of the Times Magazine".

There was a monthly article which showed pictures of signs people had sent in and the section was titled"Ugly Signs". Being conscientious sign makers and painters we would strive to produce only the very best of our work. Consequently when we see obviously shabby stuff done by business owners too cheap to pay for a real sign the ugly ones would make a few laughs when we could see them in the magazine. Humorous but sad because the sign is something which is supposed to point to something greater than itself!

Vincent von Frese 10 Feb 2013

Just so no one gets the idea I haven't made any poor art I'd like to say most of the work I've attempted ended up poor....so bad I had to destroy it lest it drags me down to far from my ideal goals. Its been at times so poorly done that I've had to pay someone else to get rid of it.

Lois Penrod 10 Feb 2013

I have to agree with you on that about the money part,but not the art how would you know that somebody else did as art was thought as being worthless and was not just a winning prize to another.There are bound to be people who don't agree thats what makes art fascinating why fight over art there are so much other things more important out there to fight for thats why I do not understand.Art is supposed to be fun.My opinion art is art with meanings behind and it is your choice as to find the meaning on your own.Just like the sign business if you have to reject a piece of art I would look behind it and respect that person for their thoughts.Me being taught on my own which could someday be better which has a little by time done so.Yes certain art you do not like but that tells you something about yourself that maybe you never thought of before so can good art.Its the heart and soul of art.

Vincent von Frese 10 Feb 2013

That's nicely put indeed!

I care not about anyone els's art except to enjoy it. I would not judge it. It's true that each person is operating on their own level of achievement and like Yoga they improve at their own pace.

Sometimes art is team project to and everyone must compromise a bit and work together no matter what their differences of opinion and taste are.

Artists who are comfortable and satisfied(with themselves and their work) are at their end probably though.

Vincent von Frese 11 Feb 2013

If the visual arts were contested in the same was as the competitive "America's Got Talent" production or "Shark Tank" were innovation creates investment we could see some art folks re-thinking their presentations. There are so many highly skilled people but to make the presentation effective the best one can do should be the first consideration.

In street art shows it is competitive just to get juried in. The jury members are overwhelmed with the masses of art applications and can only select a few....as a result art that gets the judges attention at first glance gets accepted over more subtle or tedious and mundane artworks.

Lois Penrod 11 Feb 2013

Who's really to say about this but I will put my 2 cents in.Life is always a competition everday in my opinion if people do not like there art why even show it off.Competition should be where your proud of your art or whatever your experience.To be satisfied if all does not turn out and keep pushing on.Trying to accomplish what you are good at not what your not,why did you even do it.Have faith in yourself.This competition is a not real to me it just keeps building and building on itself as the people keep crashing down,art is like judging and who says who to judge someone.To say something is better than another,I like the words like Oh! I love the feel of this piece art or No... I do not like the feel,which does not put a bad wrap on it.It is the persons thinking they need change not someone else its their feel as well as the person who observes it. Now Iam putting this saying to art there are tons of ways to put it correctly for other things,who though says what is correct everybody being different.It takes guts to have competition but that also may lower your confidence or not,What I am trying to say is everything is either good or bad,speaking people wise but in life so why say art is bad its not a crime that is for sure.

Vincent von Frese 11 Feb 2013

Right you are! We agree that life is competitive.

Good art, poor art, excellent art....of no real importance in the world is it?

Vincent von Frese 13 Feb 2013

I do not mean to deter from the importance of art to people. It's just that, although many have given up their lives for it, art exists on a different plane than daily survival which requires fighting for. On the other hand why knock oneself out for the purpose of providing a wall decoration for fancy houses?

On the other hand if one were a boxer or a sprinter in contrast they could not be successful without having shown success at the expense of the failure of their opponent. And they do not enter the arena just for fun because it's work, skill, training and dedication combined. In their world popularity has no measure on their success or failure as it does in the art world.

Competing with one's self defeating boredom and laziness with excitement and interest is one battle.

Justin Day 25 Feb 2013

Just out of curiosity, are you saying the penguin is poor art?! Because I really like it!

__________

Justin Christopher Day

the Social Art Movement www.thesocialartmovement.com

@artismovement on Twitter facebook.com/thesocialartmovement theSocialArtMovement on Instagram

[email protected]

Cole McLester 26 Feb 2013

Good art, just might be a poor artist. More sales = less hunger.

Marty Yokawonis 27 Feb 2013

I would say after reading your initial posts that, as far as the sign analogy goes, what you are saying is less about good or bad opinions and more about competence. As you point out the signs done by people who are trying to save a few bucks shows things done very poorly or crudely. Being competent in anything always means putting your best work out there for consideration. It also means being confident enough to take criticism if you aren't doing a good job or being big enough to admit your work isn't really cutting it.

I undertook a project late last year that was in actual fact something far beyond my physical skills and is literally kicking my butt because I ran into technical problems I haven't been able to adequately solve as yet. I am not being paid on this project so there's no actual deadline other than the party I committed to doing this for has been waiting for me to finish this for months. I have out in countless hours and physical labor trying to get this thing done but have hit a total technical roadblock which means it may never get finished because I can't let something that looks really badly incompetent be publicly displayed. (which is what it's for)

Vincent von Frese 04 Mar 2013

Justin Day; The Penguin is brilliant art, not poor by any standards....pics I install in these discussions are not necessarily related to the discussion.

Penguin is an early Picasso drawing on paper.

Marty; I agree. Also I think the limitations of material and or ability to use the material chosen for a project are at least one major consideration needed by us all before letting one's work be presented to the public. In sculpture material often determines the most effective route toward the expression we are after(like exterior line for example). Some expressions is not best in some materials. If people are overly concerned with technical material fabrication often the expression is lost(like when an idea is confusing or vague as a result of elements in the image which are not coordinated).

Simplicity is the key for the idea and the expression of it...saves lots of time wasted.

Tim Lincoln 07 Mar 2013

I paint what I want and anything could be a subject.I take my camera with me and love to capture images of people. Cubism doesn't have a huge market right now but I refuse to paint the same things over again because they sold....That's why I'm broke.LOL

I do have a landscape design company and I get bored doing the same look but I have to make a living.

There was this little old lady coming out of a liquor store that I'm going to paint.It was her look that got my attention.

But I see some artist that get into a niche of painting the same things and subject matter over and over because it sells.I just can't do that and knew when I was in school that I would never be a full time artist.I've had friends say that i should have an exhibition with wine and cheese etc. but I would rather have my genitals exposed to an open flame.

In fact I'm thinking of doing a portrait out of Starbucks cups.There are ton's in the trash and on the floorboard of my truck.

Vincent von Frese 07 Mar 2013

Tony; I can see you are a true artist. Your work is unique looking and your approach is very strong and confident. Sometimes it's better to allow others to promote your art.....but remember there are three phases of all art:

A. the concept(creative idea)

B. the fabrication(the physical involvement with material)

C. the sharing of it with others including the public

The best artists I've known seem to have an aversion to societal accolades and even money itself. The worst artists I've known are always concerned with money and or status and are really sickening people to be around, full of themselves and all.

In my case I seem to be invisible and when I even try to connect with art dealers or sometimes even the public I get ignored. That's why I am not much of a personal fan of many artists who have a successful following weather I like their work or not.

The enclosed photo is one of the little sculptures which sold quite easily entitled "Freedom"... composed of cedar driftwood.

Tim Lincoln 08 Mar 2013

excellent.It has a quality of being very unexistential.

Vincent von Frese 08 Mar 2013

Thanks, I guess.

I was looking on Craig's List at art and found the most ugliest and revolting examples of "abstract art" I've ever seen. Spray painted crap.

There's a LOT of rotten art out there for sure.

Tim Lincoln 09 Mar 2013

It's all subjective.I spend a lot of time at the museums,both contemporary and classic like MFAH. The contemporary one is which you really have to have an open mind.There has been some art through there I wouldn't even want for free but the person behind me might love it.

The sculpture you showed would not personably be something I'd want but the lines and flowing motion are done quite well but I'm still old school.I have to see the piece,especially a sculpture. Cheers

Vincent von Frese 09 Mar 2013

Exterior line is what is not in this wood sculpture of driftwood I have presented. It fails there. It 's power is the natural position and interior line of it's mounting in balance with the base.

Strong sculpture has communication by exterior line and balance of energy.

Vincent von Frese 10 Mar 2013

Tim;

My assessments are objective observations without a subjective base. Hard work and determination is not a subjective issue as it relates to art.

The society, culture and trends determine what is acceptable as art. An artist should not be concerned with self-conscience subjectivity but just do what they feel.

Vincent von Frese 10 Mar 2013

Tim;

There is a lot of politics and commercial advertising involved in the promoting of "artist's of note". With this in mind we can see lots of crap getting attention under the label of "contemporary" art. It is often , more often than not, not contemporary at all but a boring rehash of some other artist's expression and presented ion such a boring manner that only a complete idiot could appreciate it in any honesty.